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False narrative? The "narrative" is their financial data. The fact that there is so much capital floating around to keep bad businesses afloat doesn't make the

False narrative? The "narrative" is their financial data. The fact that there is so much capital floating around to keep bad businesses afloat doesn't make them good businesses. I'm sure the shady silicon valley dealings are isolated to WeWork, even though Tesla is being sued for similar self-dealing. Good luck!

xedeon 7y ago
Netflix Revenue — $17 billion Gross Profit — $5.8 billion EBITDA — $2 billion Market Cap — $111 billion Debt — $14 billion Enterprise Value — $125 billion Tesla Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B ------------------- Uber Revenue — $12 billion Gross Profit — $4 billion EBITDA — negative $7.6 billion Market Cap — $53 billion Debt — $6.2 billion Enterprise Value — $50.5 billion Tesla Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B I can go on but hopefully you get the point.
- qroshan 7y ago
  Holy shit! The lies that you have put Tesla's Q2 Gross Profit was 900 million with a Gross profit of -170 Million. Where did you get the 25B Gross Profit from?
  - DuskStar 7y ago
    > Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B I think this means that the Gross Profit was $4B, not 25. And Gross Profit is Revenue - Cost of Goods Sold [0], so they may still have had losses after R&D and expansion. The EBITDA number of $2.33B also seems reasonable as a "last four quarters" measure here [1] (which actually lists $2.35B). 0: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossprofit.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossprofit.asp 1: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/ebitda https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/ebitda
  - xedeon 7y ago
    > Holy shit! The lies that you have put Do you actually know how read financials? I hope you don't actually dabble in active trading... If you do, you should stop now and just put your hard-earned money into an index fund and call it a day.
bdamm 7y ago
Partly I think this is motivated by the law that gives tax breaks to companies that show losses. So then no big surprise that many tech companies show losses, regardless of their corporate health. Amazon is one; they've almost never shown a profit ever, and when they have it has been exceedingly slight (surely an accounting "mistake"). Yet they are still in business over 20 years later, and that success has catapulted multiple individuals into the billionaire range. Shady? Definitely. Too much capital? Clearly not, since Amazon has out-performed any possible influx of capital. There is clearly some dark art in accounting, but I don't think it's always because the companies are covering up bad business. It might be because they're trying to make as little taxable profit as possible.
mediaman 7y ago
If you take a closer look at their financial data, you'll find that it's quite a bit better than what people repeat. In Fiscal Year 2018, they had positive operating cash flow of $2.1 billion. Part of the reason for the difference between accounting earnings (a loss) and actual cash flow is the huge depreciation charges ($1.9 billion) for historical capital expenditures, versus present-day cash outflows. In that year, Tesla still spent a lot of cap-ex dollars on Model 3 capacity and battery capacity (to the tune of $2.3 billion), so overall cash flow was slightly negative - about $200 million for the year, off of $21 billion in revenue. In the six months since then, they're reported additional positive operating cash flow: $224mm off of $10.9 billion in revenue. This is a company experiencing 47% y/y revenue growth for the first half of the year. Yes, they're spending on cap-ex, but they are producing positive operating cash flow and their total operating+cap-ex cash flow is running a little in the red, but <1% of revenues. And in context, they have $5 billion in cash and $10 billion in short term assets. Tesla is not at significant financial risk.
- Phillipharryt 7y ago
  For a company not at significant financial risk why is their credit rating so low? Investors shouldn't be concerned about repayment if Tesla is likely to remain solvent.
  - xedeon 7y ago
    If you rely solely on credit ratings or other noise for investment advice, I have bad news for you.
    - Phillipharryt 7y ago
      Don't be so condescending. It's a measure of solvency and they don't drop it to junk just for fun.

xedeon 7y ago

Netflix Revenue — $17 billion Gross Profit — $5.8 billion EBITDA — $2 billion Market Cap — $111 billion Debt — $14 billion Enterprise Value — $125 billion Tesla Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B ------------------- Uber Revenue — $12 billion Gross Profit — $4 billion EBITDA — negative $7.6 billion Market Cap — $53 billion Debt — $6.2 billion Enterprise Value — $50.5 billion Tesla Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B EBITDA — $2.33B Market Cap — $39B Debt — $14B Enterprise Value — $54B I can go on but hopefully you get the point.

qroshan 7y ago
Holy shit! The lies that you have put Tesla's Q2 Gross Profit was 900 million with a Gross profit of -170 Million. Where did you get the 25B Gross Profit from?
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > Revenue — $25B Gross Profit — $4B I think this means that the Gross Profit was $4B, not 25. And Gross Profit is Revenue - Cost of Goods Sold [0], so they may still have had losses after R&D and expansion. The EBITDA number of $2.33B also seems reasonable as a "last four quarters" measure here [1] (which actually lists $2.35B). 0: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossprofit.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/grossprofit.asp 1: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/ebitda https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/ebitda
- xedeon 7y ago
  > Holy shit! The lies that you have put Do you actually know how read financials? I hope you don't actually dabble in active trading... If you do, you should stop now and just put your hard-earned money into an index fund and call it a day.

bdamm 7y ago

Partly I think this is motivated by the law that gives tax breaks to companies that show losses. So then no big surprise that many tech companies show losses, regardless of their corporate health. Amazon is one; they've almost never shown a profit ever, and when they have it has been exceedingly slight (surely an accounting "mistake"). Yet they are still in business over 20 years later, and that success has catapulted multiple individuals into the billionaire range. Shady? Definitely. Too much capital? Clearly not, since Amazon has out-performed any possible influx of capital. There is clearly some dark art in accounting, but I don't think it's always because the companies are covering up bad business. It might be because they're trying to make as little taxable profit as possible.

mediaman 7y ago

If you take a closer look at their financial data, you'll find that it's quite a bit better than what people repeat. In Fiscal Year 2018, they had positive operating cash flow of $2.1 billion. Part of the reason for the difference between accounting earnings (a loss) and actual cash flow is the huge depreciation charges ($1.9 billion) for historical capital expenditures, versus present-day cash outflows. In that year, Tesla still spent a lot of cap-ex dollars on Model 3 capacity and battery capacity (to the tune of $2.3 billion), so overall cash flow was slightly negative - about $200 million for the year, off of $21 billion in revenue. In the six months since then, they're reported additional positive operating cash flow: $224mm off of $10.9 billion in revenue. This is a company experiencing 47% y/y revenue growth for the first half of the year. Yes, they're spending on cap-ex, but they are producing positive operating cash flow and their total operating+cap-ex cash flow is running a little in the red, but <1% of revenues. And in context, they have $5 billion in cash and $10 billion in short term assets. Tesla is not at significant financial risk.

Phillipharryt 7y ago
For a company not at significant financial risk why is their credit rating so low? Investors shouldn't be concerned about repayment if Tesla is likely to remain solvent.
- xedeon 7y ago
  If you rely solely on credit ratings or other noise for investment advice, I have bad news for you.
  - Phillipharryt 7y ago
    Don't be so condescending. It's a measure of solvency and they don't drop it to junk just for fun.