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except the incompetencies of democracy don’t really have anything to do with the blatant faults of the Chinese government. The censorship, aggressive propaganda

except the incompetencies of democracy don’t really have anything to do with the blatant faults of the Chinese government. The censorship, aggressive propaganda campaigns, re-education camps for ethnic and religious minorities, probable organ extraction from unwilling political prisoners, high levels of corruption at every level, deceitful business arrangements with government sponsored theft of IP, aggressive expansion into areas that don’t want Chinese interference, etc. the situations aren’t comparable. We don’t need to care what government ideology brought China to its current position. It is sufficient to say that a world where China has more geo political power is probably a worse one

osdiab 7y ago
Look through that list of injustices. If you're a mainstream Chinese person, most of it doesn't strongly affect you. And additionally, if you're a mainstream Chinese person, your life is very positively affected by the surge in power, wealth, and order that has come to China in recent decades. That power and wealth was not fated to come by divine right, it's something that the CCP has achieved through strong—often unethical—but usually (not always) effective leadership, whether it be in setting industrial strategy to produce tons of jobs for formerly starving rural Chinese (while the US has lost jobs for its working class consistently); developing cities to have best-in-world subway systems and high-speed rail on the base of villages that didn't have reliable water or electricity decades ago (while the US hasn't improved its infrastructure in decades); and paving the way for many of the worlds' foremost scientists, to be Chinese-born (while the share of Americans doing the same thing has been in decline). You cannot say the same for many, if any, other developing countries in the world. And I think most mainstream Chinese people you'd ask (if you can), would say that they do believe the CCP does represent and work for the benefit of the Chinese people. (Note, I didn't say its minorities, I said its people—those mainstream Chinese who comprise the vast majority of its population). Whether or not you think it's "good" for this government to have more power or represent the world, is largely irrelevant. If you want that system to look more like yours, you have to make the alternative materially better _for those who benefit from it_ (or beat that system into the ground). Calling it evil or listing out human rights violations does not achieve that goal, and represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the values that underpin it.

osdiab 7y ago

Look through that list of injustices. If you're a mainstream Chinese person, most of it doesn't strongly affect you. And additionally, if you're a mainstream Chinese person, your life is very positively affected by the surge in power, wealth, and order that has come to China in recent decades. That power and wealth was not fated to come by divine right, it's something that the CCP has achieved through strong—often unethical—but usually (not always) effective leadership, whether it be in setting industrial strategy to produce tons of jobs for formerly starving rural Chinese (while the US has lost jobs for its working class consistently); developing cities to have best-in-world subway systems and high-speed rail on the base of villages that didn't have reliable water or electricity decades ago (while the US hasn't improved its infrastructure in decades); and paving the way for many of the worlds' foremost scientists, to be Chinese-born (while the share of Americans doing the same thing has been in decline). You cannot say the same for many, if any, other developing countries in the world. And I think most mainstream Chinese people you'd ask (if you can), would say that they do believe the CCP does represent and work for the benefit of the Chinese people. (Note, I didn't say its minorities, I said its people—those mainstream Chinese who comprise the vast majority of its population). Whether or not you think it's "good" for this government to have more power or represent the world, is largely irrelevant. If you want that system to look more like yours, you have to make the alternative materially better _for those who benefit from it_ (or beat that system into the ground). Calling it evil or listing out human rights violations does not achieve that goal, and represents a fundamental misunderstanding of the values that underpin it.