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> relatively generous PTO Why not attribute a number to this instead of being vague? I personally think 28 days PTO (not including holidays) is "relatively gen

> relatively generous PTO Why not attribute a number to this instead of being vague? I personally think 28 days PTO (not including holidays) is "relatively generous" (for the US).

apta 7y ago
None of this "unlimited PTO" either. It's just a way for the company to save money as they don't owe you anything come the end of the year or when you leave and still have PTO days.
- whycombagator 7y ago
  I'll add "flexible"/"untracked"/"open" PTO to the list too I find myself having to scour the internet for what that even means. Turns out for some companies it's a hard limit of 20. For others it's OK if you take off 40 days. Most of the time it appears to mean around 4 weeks or 20 days - which is not great. I have been fortunate enough to enjoy > 28 days PTO for the last 5 years of my career at 2 separate companies. It has been life changing. I will never, ever, again go back to accured, or highly limited, PTO - and I encourage anyone who will listen to try to do the same.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    In our world with the flexibility most of us have, you can do a lot without using your PTO. One of my coworkers went to India for three weeks and only took about a week off. The rest of the time he worked remotely and put himself on the same schedule as our team based in there. I’ve hardly ever needed to take PTO because of sickness. Most of the time I can work from home if I am contagious or catch up later. I relocated out of town for a whole summer, stayed with my parents and worked remotely when we were literally between homes - our lease was up, we were waiting for a house to be built, and my wife doesn’t work during the summer (she works in education.)
    - whycombagator 7y ago
      > One of my coworkers went to India for three weeks and only took about a week off. Sounds less than ideal. I feel bad that he wasn't able to take all 3 weeks off and fully enjoy his time there. > I’ve hardly ever needed to take PTO because of sickness. Most of the time I can work from home if I am contagious or catch up later. Sounds like a great place/way to work > I relocated out of town for a whole summer, stayed with my parents and worked remotely when we were literally between homes - our lease was up, we were waiting for a house to be built, and my wife doesn’t work during the summer (she works in education.) Sounds stressful
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Sounds less than ideal. I feel bad that he wasn't able to take all 3 weeks off and fully enjoy his time there. If he is anything like me, it gives you a good excuse to spend some time with your family and spend some time away from your family without having to be on all the time. Sounds like a great place/way to work I can’t telk if you’re being sarcastic. But, I have cold induced asthma. I can go weeks after I’m over my cold and still coughing. But even if that’s not the case, there are plenty of times I feel good enough to work or even work out (at home) but want to be considerate enough not to be around other people. Sounds stressful Why would that be stressful? At the time, my parents house was larger than mine and they had two spare bedrooms - one for my wife and I, one for me and they had a separate office I could set up in. The alternative, was staying in an extended stay (not bad, just small) - which we did while school was in session.
scarface74 7y ago
It’s just like saying “I am paid well”. But if you’re not making $300K a year, people on HN act like you’re living in poverty and then you have to explain that $135K+ allows you to buy a nice big new house in the burbs in a good school system as long as you stay away from the west coast. In other words, it details the conversation.
- whycombagator 7y ago
  I'm not sure I follow. I can't tell if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me So, to clarify, PTO can range from something like 0 days to 60 days. Salary variance is much larger and the ceiling is higher, so OP not putting a salary number makes sense. It does not, however, make sense to provide no floor for PTO (which the OP did) IMO the floor for PTO should be 28.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Why should it be 28 days? On average it is only 11 days (https://www.tsheets.com/resources/pto-survey https://www.tsheets.com/resources/pto-survey)
    - whycombagator 7y ago
      > Why should it be 28 days? You must be an employer ;) A few reasons I like at least 28 days: You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety and general mental health are improved, I get to _actually_ travel. I could go on. 11 days over the entire year gives me time for what? Not much. > On average it is only 11 days In the US. That's also one of the worst averages in the the industrialized world and the US is one of the only nations to not set a minimum for PTO[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...
      - scarface74 7y ago
        A few reasons I like at least 28 days: You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety and general mental health are improved, I get to _actually_ travel. I could go If I am 45 years old working at a job that is stressful or giving me anxiety or burning me out, I’m doing it wrong. That hold thing I said about “optionality”? If any job is giving me continuous stress, it’s time to job hunt. Why would a software engineer in 2019 stress when there are so many jobs out there? Most adults (friends and family) also have jobs. the US. That's also one of the worst averages in the the industrialized world and the US is one of the only nations to not set a minimum for PTO[0] Seeing that I am not going to be leaving the US anytime soon...

> relatively generous PTO Why not attribute a number to this instead of being vague? I personally think 28 days PTO (not including holidays) is "relatively generous" (for the US).

apta 7y ago

None of this "unlimited PTO" either. It's just a way for the company to save money as they don't owe you anything come the end of the year or when you leave and still have PTO days.

whycombagator 7y ago
I'll add "flexible"/"untracked"/"open" PTO to the list too I find myself having to scour the internet for what that even means. Turns out for some companies it's a hard limit of 20. For others it's OK if you take off 40 days. Most of the time it appears to mean around 4 weeks or 20 days - which is not great. I have been fortunate enough to enjoy > 28 days PTO for the last 5 years of my career at 2 separate companies. It has been life changing. I will never, ever, again go back to accured, or highly limited, PTO - and I encourage anyone who will listen to try to do the same.
- scarface74 7y ago
  In our world with the flexibility most of us have, you can do a lot without using your PTO. One of my coworkers went to India for three weeks and only took about a week off. The rest of the time he worked remotely and put himself on the same schedule as our team based in there. I’ve hardly ever needed to take PTO because of sickness. Most of the time I can work from home if I am contagious or catch up later. I relocated out of town for a whole summer, stayed with my parents and worked remotely when we were literally between homes - our lease was up, we were waiting for a house to be built, and my wife doesn’t work during the summer (she works in education.)
  - whycombagator 7y ago
    > One of my coworkers went to India for three weeks and only took about a week off. Sounds less than ideal. I feel bad that he wasn't able to take all 3 weeks off and fully enjoy his time there. > I’ve hardly ever needed to take PTO because of sickness. Most of the time I can work from home if I am contagious or catch up later. Sounds like a great place/way to work > I relocated out of town for a whole summer, stayed with my parents and worked remotely when we were literally between homes - our lease was up, we were waiting for a house to be built, and my wife doesn’t work during the summer (she works in education.) Sounds stressful
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Sounds less than ideal. I feel bad that he wasn't able to take all 3 weeks off and fully enjoy his time there. If he is anything like me, it gives you a good excuse to spend some time with your family and spend some time away from your family without having to be on all the time. Sounds like a great place/way to work I can’t telk if you’re being sarcastic. But, I have cold induced asthma. I can go weeks after I’m over my cold and still coughing. But even if that’s not the case, there are plenty of times I feel good enough to work or even work out (at home) but want to be considerate enough not to be around other people. Sounds stressful Why would that be stressful? At the time, my parents house was larger than mine and they had two spare bedrooms - one for my wife and I, one for me and they had a separate office I could set up in. The alternative, was staying in an extended stay (not bad, just small) - which we did while school was in session.

scarface74 7y ago

It’s just like saying “I am paid well”. But if you’re not making $300K a year, people on HN act like you’re living in poverty and then you have to explain that $135K+ allows you to buy a nice big new house in the burbs in a good school system as long as you stay away from the west coast. In other words, it details the conversation.

whycombagator 7y ago
I'm not sure I follow. I can't tell if you're disagreeing or agreeing with me So, to clarify, PTO can range from something like 0 days to 60 days. Salary variance is much larger and the ceiling is higher, so OP not putting a salary number makes sense. It does not, however, make sense to provide no floor for PTO (which the OP did) IMO the floor for PTO should be 28.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Why should it be 28 days? On average it is only 11 days (https://www.tsheets.com/resources/pto-survey https://www.tsheets.com/resources/pto-survey)
  - whycombagator 7y ago
    > Why should it be 28 days? You must be an employer ;) A few reasons I like at least 28 days: You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety and general mental health are improved, I get to _actually_ travel. I could go on. 11 days over the entire year gives me time for what? Not much. > On average it is only 11 days In the US. That's also one of the worst averages in the the industrialized world and the US is one of the only nations to not set a minimum for PTO[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_b...
    - scarface74 7y ago
      A few reasons I like at least 28 days: You get to truly disconnect/recharge, prevents burnout, I get to spend more time with friends and family, my stress/anxiety and general mental health are improved, I get to _actually_ travel. I could go If I am 45 years old working at a job that is stressful or giving me anxiety or burning me out, I’m doing it wrong. That hold thing I said about “optionality”? If any job is giving me continuous stress, it’s time to job hunt. Why would a software engineer in 2019 stress when there are so many jobs out there? Most adults (friends and family) also have jobs. the US. That's also one of the worst averages in the the industrialized world and the US is one of the only nations to not set a minimum for PTO[0] Seeing that I am not going to be leaving the US anytime soon...