6 ms·

What happens when an entire country legalizes drug use?

32 points by robg 16y ago

wglb 16y ago
Registration required. Personally, it is harder to find better journalistic photography on the web.
- beoba 16y ago
  Worked for me. Try querying your favorite search engine (Bing) for the opening sentence. I've found news sites tend to like you if you have a search engine as your referer. "In the end, there was no way to ignore the problem, and no way for politicians to spin it, either"
  - wglb 16y ago
    Ah I meant to be more clear. I didn't mind registering for the site as there is good photography there. And thanks for the reminder on how to find it otherwise.
zemanel 16y ago
as far as i know, drug use has been legal here in Portugal at least since 10 years ago and, like, the sky is still up where it's supposed to be
- Vieira 16y ago
  not legal, decriminalized.
  - pyre 16y ago
    I don't get the difference between "drug use is legal" and "drug use is decriminalized." It sounds like mere possession is legal, but selling/trafficking is not, I would qualify that as 'drug use is legal.'
    - Vieira 16y ago
      Drug use is not legal. It constitutes an infraction of the law and if caught you may be forced to see a psychologist and/or rehab. Decriminalized means there are no criminal penalties. Other penalties may still apply.
madmaze 16y ago
I think there are a few counties that could benefit from this approach of battling ramped drug use. It seems to have done something in Cali aswell as here in Massachusetts, for Mary-Jane that is. I have witnessed a few of my school mates succumb to heavy use of marijuana and some of them have had their problems with the law, but the majority of pot-heads I know can hold it within limits and actually do rather well. I was amazed to see how much drug use there was going to school in boston. Freshman year I would estimate that about 75-80% of people smoked atleast weed and close to everyone drank. To put my estimations into proportion, I must mention that I dont smoke and i cant say I hung-out with lots of potheads. To the point: I think there is a great number of people that can deal with light drug use in everyday life, but there are some, in my experience mostly bipolar or psychologically depressed people have a hard time controlling themselves. Therefore I think that it may be a good idea for other countries to try similar measures.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
fourspace 16y ago
It should come as no surprise that the right answer is treating drug addiction and substance abuse like medical conditions rather than legal ones. The idea that the government should regulate what I choose to put in my own body is preposterous to begin with. If you want to criminalize something, try starting with the actions that drug addicts take towards others, not themselves. Driving while intoxicated, theft, vandalism and more serious crimes are already illegal and should stay so. It is impossible to violate your own rights; why should making a 100% personal decision be a crime?
- corin_ 16y ago
  Devil's advocate: should that right extend to allowing people to commit suicide without any attempt at prevention?
  - cabalamat 16y ago
    You can hardly make successful suicide a crime. (Though there have been regimes that made unsuccessful suicide attempts illegal).
    - xal 16y ago
      suicide is illegal in germany.
      - jrockway 16y ago
        Punishable by death?
    - corin_ 16y ago
      I said "any attempt at prevention", not "making succesful suicide a crime". IANAL, but, in the UK at least, it's possible for somebody who is suicidal to be locked up for their own safety. That goes against the parent comment's logic that we have the right to do whatever we wish to our own bodies... so I'm not sure the what the issue is with my question.
eduardo_f 16y ago
It's the same in Spain. You get a fine (around $500), but you don't go to prison.
keefe 16y ago
immigration...
maeon3 16y ago
Malcolm Gladwell talks about this phenomenon in his book: "The Tipping Point". He calls it the 'stickiness factor'. He analyzes the phenomenon where children begin taking drugs even when they fully understand that it greatly harms them. Teenagers are inherently, perhaps even genetically predisposed to imitate others and try on new behaviors and attitudes during adolescence. Second, the types of the people who are more likely to engage in dramatic, easily romanticized behavior such as early cigarette smoking or suicide are also more likely to be those that others tend to gravitate toward and seek to emulate. When Portugal legalized all drugs, they greatly lowered the 'Stickiness Factor' for those drugs. http://www.wikisummaries.org/The_Tipping_Point#Chapter_7:_Case_Study:_Suicide.2C_Smoking.2C_and_the_Search_for_the_Unsticky_Cigarette http://www.wikisummaries.org/The_Tipping_Point#Chapter_7:_Ca...
- drivebyacct2 16y ago
  Strange. I was always pressured to do drugs but refused. I'd always been curious about marijuana, and I knew the actual risks and major lack there of. Sometime in college I tried it, but only one other person knew and with the people I run around with, drug use isn't "cool". It's not as bad for me and doesn't have the morning-after effects of alcohol and considerably less is enjoyable enough to relax in the evenings. I guess I'm more of a minority than I'd assumed.
TGJ 16y ago
“We really needed to learn how to prevent and discourage the use of drugs, especially in adolescent years. But you should use tools appropriate to the purpose, and criminal sanctions carried a lot of costs that really weren’t appropriate.” I've always thought that the war on drugs was fought on the wrong side. That instead of working towards punishing people after the fact, we should have figured out why people use drugs and how to fix that problem. As with most things though, the easy way (prosecution) is the most traveled.
- idm 16y ago
  Mental illness is a major factor leading to the use of drugs, either by prescription or not. Lots of people have mental illnesses, therefore lots of people use drugs. Here's the trick: prescription drugs may be sanctioned, but they are not definitely safer, either for the individual or for society. I tend to agree with you about the "wrong side" argument, but where I disagree is: sometimes, drugs are the fix for the problem. For one individual, maybe meth isn't the answer, but perhaps adderall is (i.e. still an amphetamine, but less acutely active)
wil2k 16y ago
Looking at the other replies, this topic just begs for a reference to the work of Terence McKenna. Especially to a speech like "The World & It's Double" Terence McKenna: The World & It's Double - 1/11 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkUkGUY7hsY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkUkGUY7hsY It goes into subjects like boundary dissolution, how this is not something that some parties (governments, many religions, etc.) really like. It also mentions how particular drugs (the ones that make you productive, e.g. caffeine) are the ones that are allowed. Not those which make you snap out of the standard Western materialistic view of the world: "All the boundaries we put up to keep ourselves from feeling our circumstance are dissolved [when using psychedelics]. And boundary dissolution is the most threatening activity that can go on in a society. Government institutions become very nervous when people begin to talk to each other. The whole name of the Western game is to create boundaries and maintain them." "The drugs that Western society has traditionally favored have either been drugs which maintain boundaries or drugs which promote mindless, repetitious physical activity on the assembly line, in the slave galley, on the slave-driven agricultural projects, in the corporate office, whatever it is." I've once listened to this when I was in a skyscraper, looking at the world below.. seeing all those tiny people and vehicles move and pondering about this is really something that puts things in perspective. Finally, although I don't use drugs/alcohol/caffeine myself.. I too cannot help wondering why one should not be allowed to experiment with ones own consciousness. Why not allow this in a legal, safe, special environment which watches over things? Perhaps not all drugs are suitable for this, but let's not forget that drugs like DMT, which as McKenna describes give one 'the ride of a lifetime', are naturally occuring in our own bodies... yet they are one of the most illegal things out there. Isn't that odd? #daretoask, #questioneverything ;)

32 points by robg 16y ago

wglb 16y ago

Registration required. Personally, it is harder to find better journalistic photography on the web.

beoba 16y ago
Worked for me. Try querying your favorite search engine (Bing) for the opening sentence. I've found news sites tend to like you if you have a search engine as your referer. "In the end, there was no way to ignore the problem, and no way for politicians to spin it, either"
- wglb 16y ago
  Ah I meant to be more clear. I didn't mind registering for the site as there is good photography there. And thanks for the reminder on how to find it otherwise.

zemanel 16y ago

as far as i know, drug use has been legal here in Portugal at least since 10 years ago and, like, the sky is still up where it's supposed to be

Vieira 16y ago
not legal, decriminalized.
- pyre 16y ago
  I don't get the difference between "drug use is legal" and "drug use is decriminalized." It sounds like mere possession is legal, but selling/trafficking is not, I would qualify that as 'drug use is legal.'
  - Vieira 16y ago
    Drug use is not legal. It constitutes an infraction of the law and if caught you may be forced to see a psychologist and/or rehab. Decriminalized means there are no criminal penalties. Other penalties may still apply.

madmaze 16y ago

I think there are a few counties that could benefit from this approach of battling ramped drug use. It seems to have done something in Cali aswell as here in Massachusetts, for Mary-Jane that is. I have witnessed a few of my school mates succumb to heavy use of marijuana and some of them have had their problems with the law, but the majority of pot-heads I know can hold it within limits and actually do rather well. I was amazed to see how much drug use there was going to school in boston. Freshman year I would estimate that about 75-80% of people smoked atleast weed and close to everyone drank. To put my estimations into proportion, I must mention that I dont smoke and i cant say I hung-out with lots of potheads. To the point: I think there is a great number of people that can deal with light drug use in everyday life, but there are some, in my experience mostly bipolar or psychologically depressed people have a hard time controlling themselves. Therefore I think that it may be a good idea for other countries to try similar measures.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

fourspace 16y ago

It should come as no surprise that the right answer is treating drug addiction and substance abuse like medical conditions rather than legal ones. The idea that the government should regulate what I choose to put in my own body is preposterous to begin with. If you want to criminalize something, try starting with the actions that drug addicts take towards others, not themselves. Driving while intoxicated, theft, vandalism and more serious crimes are already illegal and should stay so. It is impossible to violate your own rights; why should making a 100% personal decision be a crime?

corin_ 16y ago
Devil's advocate: should that right extend to allowing people to commit suicide without any attempt at prevention?
- cabalamat 16y ago
  You can hardly make successful suicide a crime. (Though there have been regimes that made unsuccessful suicide attempts illegal).
  - xal 16y ago
    suicide is illegal in germany.
    - jrockway 16y ago
      Punishable by death?
  - corin_ 16y ago
    I said "any attempt at prevention", not "making succesful suicide a crime". IANAL, but, in the UK at least, it's possible for somebody who is suicidal to be locked up for their own safety. That goes against the parent comment's logic that we have the right to do whatever we wish to our own bodies... so I'm not sure the what the issue is with my question.

eduardo_f 16y ago

It's the same in Spain. You get a fine (around $500), but you don't go to prison.

keefe 16y ago

immigration...

maeon3 16y ago

Malcolm Gladwell talks about this phenomenon in his book: "The Tipping Point". He calls it the 'stickiness factor'. He analyzes the phenomenon where children begin taking drugs even when they fully understand that it greatly harms them. Teenagers are inherently, perhaps even genetically predisposed to imitate others and try on new behaviors and attitudes during adolescence. Second, the types of the people who are more likely to engage in dramatic, easily romanticized behavior such as early cigarette smoking or suicide are also more likely to be those that others tend to gravitate toward and seek to emulate. When Portugal legalized all drugs, they greatly lowered the 'Stickiness Factor' for those drugs. http://www.wikisummaries.org/The_Tipping_Point#Chapter_7:_Case_Study:_Suicide.2C_Smoking.2C_and_the_Search_for_the_Unsticky_Cigarette http://www.wikisummaries.org/The_Tipping_Point#Chapter_7:_Ca...

drivebyacct2 16y ago
Strange. I was always pressured to do drugs but refused. I'd always been curious about marijuana, and I knew the actual risks and major lack there of. Sometime in college I tried it, but only one other person knew and with the people I run around with, drug use isn't "cool". It's not as bad for me and doesn't have the morning-after effects of alcohol and considerably less is enjoyable enough to relax in the evenings. I guess I'm more of a minority than I'd assumed.

TGJ 16y ago

“We really needed to learn how to prevent and discourage the use of drugs, especially in adolescent years. But you should use tools appropriate to the purpose, and criminal sanctions carried a lot of costs that really weren’t appropriate.” I've always thought that the war on drugs was fought on the wrong side. That instead of working towards punishing people after the fact, we should have figured out why people use drugs and how to fix that problem. As with most things though, the easy way (prosecution) is the most traveled.

idm 16y ago
Mental illness is a major factor leading to the use of drugs, either by prescription or not. Lots of people have mental illnesses, therefore lots of people use drugs. Here's the trick: prescription drugs may be sanctioned, but they are not definitely safer, either for the individual or for society. I tend to agree with you about the "wrong side" argument, but where I disagree is: sometimes, drugs are the fix for the problem. For one individual, maybe meth isn't the answer, but perhaps adderall is (i.e. still an amphetamine, but less acutely active)

wil2k 16y ago

Looking at the other replies, this topic just begs for a reference to the work of Terence McKenna. Especially to a speech like "The World & It's Double" Terence McKenna: The World & It's Double - 1/11 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkUkGUY7hsY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkUkGUY7hsY It goes into subjects like boundary dissolution, how this is not something that some parties (governments, many religions, etc.) really like. It also mentions how particular drugs (the ones that make you productive, e.g. caffeine) are the ones that are allowed. Not those which make you snap out of the standard Western materialistic view of the world: "All the boundaries we put up to keep ourselves from feeling our circumstance are dissolved [when using psychedelics]. And boundary dissolution is the most threatening activity that can go on in a society. Government institutions become very nervous when people begin to talk to each other. The whole name of the Western game is to create boundaries and maintain them." "The drugs that Western society has traditionally favored have either been drugs which maintain boundaries or drugs which promote mindless, repetitious physical activity on the assembly line, in the slave galley, on the slave-driven agricultural projects, in the corporate office, whatever it is." I've once listened to this when I was in a skyscraper, looking at the world below.. seeing all those tiny people and vehicles move and pondering about this is really something that puts things in perspective. Finally, although I don't use drugs/alcohol/caffeine myself.. I too cannot help wondering why one should not be allowed to experiment with ones own consciousness. Why not allow this in a legal, safe, special environment which watches over things? Perhaps not all drugs are suitable for this, but let's not forget that drugs like DMT, which as McKenna describes give one 'the ride of a lifetime', are naturally occuring in our own bodies... yet they are one of the most illegal things out there. Isn't that odd? #daretoask, #questioneverything ;)