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Development and testing of the Stuxnet worm
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- dmix 16y agoIt's seemingly safe to believe that there is a very high probability that the US and Israel are behind Stuxnet. According to Wikipedia, if this is true than 2010 had the first occurrence of cyber-warfare between nation states in our history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
- bootload 16y ago"... 2010 had the first occurrence of cyber-warfare between nation states in our history ..." Estonia reported in 2007 - "Russia accused of unleashing cyberwar to disable Estonia" Ian Traynor, Guardian, 17 May 2007 ~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/17/topstories3.russia http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/17/topstories3.russ...
- askar_yu 16y ago2008's conflict between Russia and Georgia had also a had cyber aspect. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/georgia-takes-a-beating-in-the-cyberwar-with-russia/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/11/georgia-takes-a-bea...
- tsotha 16y ago>It's seemingly safe to believe that there is a very high probability that the US and Israel are behind Stuxnet. I guess, if you're willing to take the word of unidentified people who may or may not even exist. Though you did include a lot of weasel words in that sentence...
- nir 16y agoQuite a few of the people quoted in the article are identified, seem to be in position to know what they're talking about and definitely exist. By "weasel words" you mean OP (and NYT) don't state as facts things which are, while very likely, not confirmed to be facts?
- dmix 16y agoHe meant "weasel words" by my comments avoidance of just straight out saying "the US and Isreal are behind Stuxnet". Which I didn't say because there isn't direct proof. But there is still a very high probability given the only target was a very specific and obscure industrial hardware component, the unusual complexity of the virus (with its rare use of multiple zero-day vulnerabilities at once) and the fact that it couldn't be tested without access to equipment that is only accessible to governments and major corporations.
- tsotha 16y ago>Quite a few of the people quoted in the article are identified, seem to be in position to know what they're talking about and definitely exist. The people identified in the article don't know anything. The people who are the basis for the allegation are unidentified. >By "weasel words" you mean OP (and NYT) don't state as facts things which are, while very likely, not confirmed to be facts? No, I mean the sentence is written in such a way that it can't be falsified. That's perfectly reasonable in this case, especially since the article doesn't include anything that would qualify as actual proof.
- btilly 16y agoThe first occurrence? Very unlikely. It goes back farther than you'd think. The first incident that I've heard about was in 1982. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_pipeline_sabotage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_pipeline_sabotage for details.
- rdl 16y agoElectronic and signals warfare has an even longer history; RDF in WW1 and earlier, and of course Enigma/Colossus and the RADAR war of ww2. I wouldn't consider these unrelated to cyberwarfare.
- endtime 16y agoWhy is it so surprising/impressive that the worm was tested on centrifuges similar to those it was targeting? More than once, the article emphasizes that this is unusual and interesting...am I missing something?
- jaydz 16y agoThis story would be more interesting if Microsoft and/or Siemens actually helped develop this malware.
- kenjackson 16y agoI think the story would be more interesting if the malware appeared to have come from aliens from outside our solar system who knew that Iran getting nuclear capability would destroy the world and eventually set the galaxy out of balance. They send a virus back through time to stop Iran. This reporter finds evidence of this in the virus, and additionally finds indications of future events that have yet to unfold, but which this virus will also disrupt. Otherwise, I think you're left with a pretty mundane story.
- nir 16y agoThe story could definitely use some Nicholas Cage.
- tomjen3 16y agoSiemens did help them by giving the us access to their machines for "security" reasons.
- extension 16y agoI haven't decided yet how to feel about Stuxnet. On one hand, good guys don't release viruses into the wild, period. On the other hand, only good has come from this. Iran doesn't get nukes until later and industry figures out that they need to lock down their machine controllers, without any real damage.
- atomical 16y agoAren't people worried Iran could potentially develop something similar to target oil rigs? Is there a guy at the CIA saying, "Oh don't worry about it boys; it's a one off, they'll never be able to figure it out or respond in kind." At one point Persians were one of the most educated minorities in the US. They have good universities in Iran and I wouldn't put it past them to develop the capabilities to push back against this attack.
- adlep 16y agoStarting a precedence like that is never a good idea, although it looks like the US and Israel had very little choice - as the only option to stop the Iran's nuke program is an all out war. So I guess, a very sophisticated but non deadly cyberwar is a better alternative to a conventional war or strike.
- extension 16y agoIf Iran is going to do, or is already doing, cyberwarfare then they'll do it whether or not they get attacked first. But now, everyone will be on guard. I think for the most part, Stuxnet will be a one of a kind event in history. Though it's a nasty thing to do, only one team ever gets to do it, and I'd rather it be us than them.
- MichaelSalib 16y agoIf Iran is going to do, or is already doing, cyberwarfare then they'll do it whether or not they get attacked first. Why? Is that because you assume that Iranians are irrational and evil? Usually people do stuff because it benefits them somehow. So, why exactly would Iran launch a cyberwarfare attack against the US in a world where the US didn't strike first? But now, everyone will be on guard. Given how completely we've failed at building secure systems, I'm not sure that really helps.
- bueller 16y agothe net positive is that cyber-security is brought to the forefront for the US gov, more importantly this will be a great movie staring colin farrell as an Israeli ruby developer that came up with the plan
- Estragon 16y agoI probably shouldn't be surprised by willful ignorance anymore, but it amazes me that everybody in the article can celebrate this achievement and at the same time admit that it's just "pushing back the clock." Israel's still going to get hit by a nuclear weapon some time, because the technology to build one is just going to keep getting cheaper and more accessible.
- btmorex 16y agoYou think it's inevitable that Israel gets nuked? I find that very unlikely, especially since the attacking nation would definitely be destroyed as well. Iran doesn't want nukes so that they can destroy Israel. They wants nukes, because obtaining them immediately makes them powerful on the world stage. (and I say that as someone who really doesn't want to see them get nukes too because they're a crazy religious theocracy)
- yassersouri 16y agoThink for one minute. Who is the craziest nation in this regard? Who has used nukes twice to murder people. US of course.
- btmorex 16y agoNot sure what your point is. The worst of effects of nuclear weapons weren't known at the time (yes, killing all those civilians was terrible too, but worse things happened in WW2). Here's a few questions for you: who has a leader that bizarrely denies the holocaust? who has a religious paramilitary force that murders their own civilians? who keeps innocent students hostage so that they can play with them like pawns in the game of international politics? And here's a bonus wikileaks reveal: who is so disliked by their neighbors that ALL nearby countries want the US to attack them?
- yassersouri 16y agoSo really?! Holocaust? You really want to get into this? holocaust happened or not is one thing, Murdering innocent Palestinians and kicking them out of their country, and supporting this is another. who has a religious paramilitary force that murders their own civilians? I don't know, but I know how kills Iranians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 And who supported Iraq in the war against Iran. who keeps innocent students hostage so that they can play with them like pawns in the game of international politics? I've no idea what are you referring to? who is so disliked by their neighbors that ALL nearby countries want the US to attack them? And who is the most disliked country in the word? Who has military attacks on most countries in the world? Let's say Iraq. Iraqis dislike Iran or US? How about Afghans? How about Pakistanis? Iran is disliked by the nation of his neighbors or by the governments? Who is disliked by the nations?
- yassersouri 16y agoYou Americans don't get it. Israel and US murder our scientists. They try to stop our progress towards nuclear energy. They put sanction on us so we can't buy things like air planes and our planes are old and they crash and people die. ... All because of what? Because they believe we want to build stupid nuclear bomb -which we don't- and they have no evidence of it. So we stay in a war. Peace is never going to become a reality. And It's Americans fault.
- Peaker 16y agoWhy is Iran developing long-range missiles with the capability of carrying nuclear warheads in parallel to its nuclear program? Iran has been involved in multiple wars by proxy for a while now, it is unlikely an opportunity to arm itself with nukes will arise and they will not take it.
- ryoshu 16y agoMost likely because it is a non-Arab power in the Middle East that is threatened on two sides by the world's only standing super power -- a super power that has routinely threatened invasion of Iran. Look at the WikiLeaks cables that exposed the pressure from other Middle Eastern governments for the US to invade Iran. Given the geopolitics, Iran's desire for nuclear weapons is perfectly rational.
- forensic 16y agoTrust is not easy. If you were the Prime Minister of Israel what would you do?
- adrianwaj 16y agoStuxnet: forcing Israel haters everywhere to come sulking out of the woodwork.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]