6 ms·

In the states, a lot of leftists (specifically the coastal elite types) have disdain for working class people who are not like them or who live in the south/mid

In the states, a lot of leftists (specifically the coastal elite types) have disdain for working class people who are not like them or who live in the south/midwest/rustbelt/redstates/somewhereelse. They favor some policies (e.g. lax immigration laws, sometimes to the point of open borders) that do not help those working class people they claim to care about, and accuse these people of being racists for disagreeing with their opinions. At least, that's how some people see it.

pjc50 7y ago
This goes back a long way to the internationalist/"socialism in one country" debate. What is the boundary of a "class"? Are the interests of working class people born on one side of an invisible line fundamentally at odds with the interests of people born on the other?
- isoskeles 7y ago
  The boundary of a class probably lies within the heads of every single person, right? Are their interests at odds? If there is some objective idea of interests, e.g. some ideal like "the American dream", some sense of a decent life and prosperity for normal people, then no. Our interests are shared (save for a few contrarians). However, most of us have our own moral principles that we believe should be used and not violated to achieve that interest. This is a real boundary that limits progress in one direction or another.
guelo 7y ago
Is Trump, a billionaire from New York, a coastal elite?
- isoskeles 7y ago
  I have no idea what actually goes on in his brain so I couldn't say. But I don't think people who use the term in earnest would call him one. It's more of an insult from people on the 'right' to people on the 'left'.
zjaffee 7y ago
You're describing liberals who may often feel that way, liberals are absolutely not leftists (where by the standard international definition of left/right politics, both the democratic party and the republican party are liberal parties with differing views on social issues).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
kyleblarson 7y ago
This map of 2016 election results by county sums this up pretty well: https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/ https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/
pgcj_poster 7y ago
I find it really weird that people use "working class" to mean "white, rural, and blue-collar." While those people assuredly are working-class, so are waitresses in The Bronx and janitors in San Francisco, who are mostly Democrats. And by the way, immigrants, at least the ones you hear about in the media, are largely working-class. When people just ignore certain groups of people when talking about "the working class," it's pretty clear that they're not really just talking about economic status.
- isoskeles 7y ago
  > I find it really weird that people use "working class" to mean "white, rural, and blue-collar." I don't think my comment did this. > And by the way, immigrants, at least the ones you hear about in the media, are largely working-class. I don't believe anyone has ever claimed otherwise. Or if they have, it's more along the lines of referring to immigrants as welfare recipients. Either way I'm not going to defend a strawman.

pjc50 7y ago

This goes back a long way to the internationalist/"socialism in one country" debate. What is the boundary of a "class"? Are the interests of working class people born on one side of an invisible line fundamentally at odds with the interests of people born on the other?

isoskeles 7y ago
The boundary of a class probably lies within the heads of every single person, right? Are their interests at odds? If there is some objective idea of interests, e.g. some ideal like "the American dream", some sense of a decent life and prosperity for normal people, then no. Our interests are shared (save for a few contrarians). However, most of us have our own moral principles that we believe should be used and not violated to achieve that interest. This is a real boundary that limits progress in one direction or another.

guelo 7y ago

Is Trump, a billionaire from New York, a coastal elite?

isoskeles 7y ago
I have no idea what actually goes on in his brain so I couldn't say. But I don't think people who use the term in earnest would call him one. It's more of an insult from people on the 'right' to people on the 'left'.

zjaffee 7y ago

You're describing liberals who may often feel that way, liberals are absolutely not leftists (where by the standard international definition of left/right politics, both the democratic party and the republican party are liberal parties with differing views on social issues).

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

kyleblarson 7y ago

This map of 2016 election results by county sums this up pretty well: https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/ https://brilliantmaps.com/2016-county-election-map/

pgcj_poster 7y ago

I find it really weird that people use "working class" to mean "white, rural, and blue-collar." While those people assuredly are working-class, so are waitresses in The Bronx and janitors in San Francisco, who are mostly Democrats. And by the way, immigrants, at least the ones you hear about in the media, are largely working-class. When people just ignore certain groups of people when talking about "the working class," it's pretty clear that they're not really just talking about economic status.

isoskeles 7y ago
> I find it really weird that people use "working class" to mean "white, rural, and blue-collar." I don't think my comment did this. > And by the way, immigrants, at least the ones you hear about in the media, are largely working-class. I don't believe anyone has ever claimed otherwise. Or if they have, it's more along the lines of referring to immigrants as welfare recipients. Either way I'm not going to defend a strawman.