> Governments lie in much more obvious, and less noble, ways than "imagining a future world and spreading it"... Perhaps but what I'm attempting to describe is

> Governments lie in much more obvious, and less noble, ways than "imagining a future world and spreading it"... Perhaps but what I'm attempting to describe is something that all governments necessarily do. Also I'm not arguing that this is "noble". Whether you think it's "noble" depends on what you think of the government's ends and means.