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Some bits of this are interesting. The numbers on the accelerated program seem unrealistically ambitious though. In the Q&A, they say they teach a fully accredi

Some bits of this are interesting. The numbers on the accelerated program seem unrealistically ambitious though. In the Q&A, they say they teach a fully accredited 124-credit-hour degree in 2-2.5 yrs. That seems pretty difficult, at least under the official accreditation standards! A standardized definition most accreditation agencies have settled on for a "credit-hour" is approximately 45 hours of work total (so e.g. a 3-credit course requires 135 hours over the semester). Originally that came from an assumption that an N-credit class met for N hours a week, plus 2N hours of homework per week, for a 14-week semester plus a 15th exam or final-project week. But any split is ok under current standards as long as it adds up to about the same (different semester lengths, no-lecture classes purely based on videos, fully in-person lab-style classes, etc.). Either way though, a 124-credit-hour degree would end up at around 5580 hours of work. To do it in 2 calendar years, you'd need to average 54 hours/wk, with no vacations. Not physically impossible, but...

Retric 7y ago
First many students start collage with a significant number of AP credits. So, I think it’s more 124/8 in 2.5 years. Second, I pulled 23 credit hours at a regular collage in a normal semester. Keeping that pace for 2 years without break would have caused burnout, but 20 credit semesters * 5 + 12 over summer break * 2 = 124 in 2.5 years. Thus, doing this at a normal collage is viable assuming schedules work out. PS: I kind of felt like a slacker at the time because a friend was pulling 18, while keeping a full time job.
- berkeleyjunk 7y ago
  I think he answered with his take on the reddit thread. He thinks that current universities don't push the students far enough and this workload is similar to what they will experience in their first job. Seemed convincing to me.
- GavinMcG 7y ago
  > I pulled 23 credit hours at a regular collage in a normal semester. Good for you. But that's not "viable" for most students in the first place – 18 is probably pushing it.
  - Retric 7y ago
    No need to design a school for most students. Many people regularly pull 18 credit hours with a job. If they don’t need to work a meaningless job then bumping that to 20 seems extremely reasonable. Really, an elite admittance process coupled with a school that focuses on getting people out quickly vs ramping up course difficult seems like a viable tradeoff. The biggest issue with early graduation is often a few rare required classes. Design the schedule to avid that issue and you have a huge advantage.
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  You probably missed out on a lot of drinking and sporting events.
- _delirium 7y ago
  I agree it's definitely possible for some students. There are students who finish standard 4-year CS degrees ahead of schedule by taking overloads every semester (which sounds like your case), even at programs considered rigorous. But designing a normal/median path is different thing than saying a handful of top students can breeze through this faster than normal. If you just took the current UT-Austin CS curriculum but made 21-credit-hour semesters standard so you could advertise it as a 3-year time-to-completion, I'm pretty sure it'd be a mess, with some students finishing faster, but also a big spike in dropout/failure rates.
  - Merrill 7y ago
    So engineering colleges no longer tell incoming freshmen "look to your right, look to your left - only one of you three will be here four years from now"?
hackermailman 7y ago
The syllabus details the hours involved: https://github.com/Make-School-Courses/CS-1.2-How-Data-Structures-Work https://github.com/Make-School-Courses/CS-1.2-How-Data-Struc... This one claims: Total Seat Hours: 37.5 hours, Total Out-of-Class Hours: 75 hours in 7 weeks to completion.
tastroder 7y ago
According to their FAQ their accreditation seems to be some sort of "incubation program". https://www.makeschool.com/computer-science-degree/faq https://www.makeschool.com/computer-science-degree/faq It seems like much of what I would call fundamental in a CS degree is integrated into projects in their curriculum. I mean I get that they call it "applied" but a CS major with a data science specialization that doesn't seem to have dedicated statistics courses for example? I'm really wondering what kind of graduate that produces. Aside: Is this weird income share agreement model common in the US at this point? Edit: found a seemingly non-ad interview on the accreditation and incubation period https://www.wscuc.org/news/wscuc-incubation-policy-supports https://www.wscuc.org/news/wscuc-incubation-policy-supports
- dbcurtis 7y ago
  > Aside: Is this weird income share agreement model common in the US at this point? No, rather radical, and a key point of this school. What is common in the US is debilitating levels of student debt upon graduation. edit: typoos
DesaiAshu 7y ago
WASC (which accredits Stanford, UC Berkeley, etc) approved the 2 and 2.5 year degree plans totaling 124 credit hours. It's do-able, just took some creative problem solving :) We don't have a traditional summer break, so that's a big part. And we have course material that enables students to get credit during their internship or first job (which some students will do after completing all other courses).
- tastroder 7y ago
  > We don't have a traditional summer break, so that's a big part. My personal feelings on the curriculum aside, the website and sentences like this make it seem like an intense program. How do you avoid producing a bunch of burnt out at 23 interns / handle mental health of your students? I see you're hiring counselors through Angellist, is that an integral part of the organisation?
  - stale2002 7y ago
    I mean, at top tech schools, lots of students do similar levels of work load. The program might be "intense" compared to the average college students workload, but I doubt it is outside the norm of someone taking a difficult degree at a good college.

Retric 7y ago

First many students start collage with a significant number of AP credits. So, I think it’s more 124/8 in 2.5 years. Second, I pulled 23 credit hours at a regular collage in a normal semester. Keeping that pace for 2 years without break would have caused burnout, but 20 credit semesters * 5 + 12 over summer break * 2 = 124 in 2.5 years. Thus, doing this at a normal collage is viable assuming schedules work out. PS: I kind of felt like a slacker at the time because a friend was pulling 18, while keeping a full time job.

berkeleyjunk 7y ago
I think he answered with his take on the reddit thread. He thinks that current universities don't push the students far enough and this workload is similar to what they will experience in their first job. Seemed convincing to me.
GavinMcG 7y ago
> I pulled 23 credit hours at a regular collage in a normal semester. Good for you. But that's not "viable" for most students in the first place – 18 is probably pushing it.
- Retric 7y ago
  No need to design a school for most students. Many people regularly pull 18 credit hours with a job. If they don’t need to work a meaningless job then bumping that to 20 seems extremely reasonable. Really, an elite admittance process coupled with a school that focuses on getting people out quickly vs ramping up course difficult seems like a viable tradeoff. The biggest issue with early graduation is often a few rare required classes. Design the schedule to avid that issue and you have a huge advantage.
TallGuyShort 7y ago
You probably missed out on a lot of drinking and sporting events.
_delirium 7y ago
I agree it's definitely possible for some students. There are students who finish standard 4-year CS degrees ahead of schedule by taking overloads every semester (which sounds like your case), even at programs considered rigorous. But designing a normal/median path is different thing than saying a handful of top students can breeze through this faster than normal. If you just took the current UT-Austin CS curriculum but made 21-credit-hour semesters standard so you could advertise it as a 3-year time-to-completion, I'm pretty sure it'd be a mess, with some students finishing faster, but also a big spike in dropout/failure rates.
- Merrill 7y ago
  So engineering colleges no longer tell incoming freshmen "look to your right, look to your left - only one of you three will be here four years from now"?

hackermailman 7y ago

The syllabus details the hours involved: https://github.com/Make-School-Courses/CS-1.2-How-Data-Structures-Work https://github.com/Make-School-Courses/CS-1.2-How-Data-Struc... This one claims: Total Seat Hours: 37.5 hours, Total Out-of-Class Hours: 75 hours in 7 weeks to completion.

tastroder 7y ago

According to their FAQ their accreditation seems to be some sort of "incubation program". https://www.makeschool.com/computer-science-degree/faq https://www.makeschool.com/computer-science-degree/faq It seems like much of what I would call fundamental in a CS degree is integrated into projects in their curriculum. I mean I get that they call it "applied" but a CS major with a data science specialization that doesn't seem to have dedicated statistics courses for example? I'm really wondering what kind of graduate that produces. Aside: Is this weird income share agreement model common in the US at this point? Edit: found a seemingly non-ad interview on the accreditation and incubation period https://www.wscuc.org/news/wscuc-incubation-policy-supports https://www.wscuc.org/news/wscuc-incubation-policy-supports

dbcurtis 7y ago
> Aside: Is this weird income share agreement model common in the US at this point? No, rather radical, and a key point of this school. What is common in the US is debilitating levels of student debt upon graduation. edit: typoos

DesaiAshu 7y ago

WASC (which accredits Stanford, UC Berkeley, etc) approved the 2 and 2.5 year degree plans totaling 124 credit hours. It's do-able, just took some creative problem solving :) We don't have a traditional summer break, so that's a big part. And we have course material that enables students to get credit during their internship or first job (which some students will do after completing all other courses).

tastroder 7y ago
> We don't have a traditional summer break, so that's a big part. My personal feelings on the curriculum aside, the website and sentences like this make it seem like an intense program. How do you avoid producing a bunch of burnt out at 23 interns / handle mental health of your students? I see you're hiring counselors through Angellist, is that an integral part of the organisation?
- stale2002 7y ago
  I mean, at top tech schools, lots of students do similar levels of work load. The program might be "intense" compared to the average college students workload, but I doubt it is outside the norm of someone taking a difficult degree at a good college.