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But the idea is that it doesn't matter if the game genres are completely different. What matters is that indie developers like notch have shown that they can ma

But the idea is that it doesn't matter if the game genres are completely different. What matters is that indie developers like notch have shown that they can make games that will become immensely successful in new genres, such as sandbox games. Perhaps the audiences are different, although I'm sure there is still quite an overlap. However, even if the audiences are different, this just goes to show that indie developers are beating top notch companies (no pun intended) to taking advantage of these audiences.

Goladus 16y ago
The audiences are different, it's possible for people to like Minecraft and God of War, but for different reasons. That's what I mean by different audiences. I like classical Opera and NFL Football, but they have different audiences. I picked GoW to contast with Minecraft because its a big-budget title with exactly the strengths that Minecraft lacks. It's narrowly focused on the theme of a god-slayer who engages in brutal close-combat. It's loaded with detailed, hand-crafted content that all fits together coherently, supporting that theme. The story, the art, the scenario/level design, the cinematic design, which is seamlessly integrated into the actual gameplay and superb performance on its target hardware (at least, for the length of time I've played it) all make a difference. A cow in Minecraft looks like a Gateway computer box: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6qUTQDvU4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6qUTQDvU4 A cow in God of War is a 35-foot tall minotaur whose armor spews some sort of steam as Kratos rends it asunder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_xbbD7RgCg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_xbbD7RgCg I'm not taking anything away from Minecraft here. It is a fantastic game-- the point of Minecraft is entirely different from the point of GoW. Anyone playing Minecraft cares more about what the cow represents than what it looks like. But people playing GoW care a great deal what that Minotaur looks like. They care how he looks, how he moves, how the camera tracks him during the encounter, whether there is a brief fps hit when the garbage collector kicks in, etc. Currently, to get a game full of scenes like the one linked in that GoW youtube video, you need a team of designers, artists, and developers working with excellent directors and leaders.
- solipsist 16y ago
  I'll go with that: the audiences are different. Obviously indie developers can't tackle every audience/genre, but notch and other indie developers have found a audience that they can server better than any big company can. That's what matters. Minecraft showed that the audience I'm talking about has tons of potential.
- chipsy 16y ago
  But here's the thing: Who is pushing the idea that people want the God of War cow? Are players really asking for that, or is it a fantasy on the part of publishers? Publishers definitely like the idea of pumping up their games with unnecessarily large budgets, even though it works against them on a risk/reward basis, because, at least in theory, throwing money into a game will lead to a work of higher quality than the competition. And internally, everyone in charge of such projects can fall back on the prestige and instant attention assumed from having such an obviously detailed, polished work. And yet Nintendo has never felt much need to compete on that level. They give their games plenty of marketing, for sure, but product development stays pretty tight. As far as the public knows, they never let a product explode into a monumental 4-year effort. But their games are still good and still attract a sizable audience, and they've had the most success of the big publishers in substantially expanding the game market. Comparing the two approaches, I take the opinion that most of the console publishers are overextending themselves with an outdated strategy. It was more compelling to try to push the budget upwards in past eras, where the technology was just barely making new things possible each time, and the market was full of early-adopter types who wanted to see the shiniest thing around. But the differences between the best-looking games of 2011 and the best-looking games of 2006 are pretty subtle to the uninitiated viewer, nothing like the gap between any previous five-year comparison. And the overall trend of gaming has been towards more accessibility and less (overt) complexity. So our notions of quality have to change with it, and that greatly upsets the balance of power in game development.
  - stcredzero 16y ago
    internally, everyone in charge of such projects can fall back on the prestige and instant attention assumed from having such an obviously detailed, polished work. Reminds me of what I heard happened with American cars. The more space your team's components had under the hood, the more prestige you had in the company. As a result, American cars kept on getting bigger and bigger. American companies kept on ignoring the small car market, which left an inroad for foreign companies.
Keyframe 16y ago
developers like notch have shown that they can make games that will become immensely successful in new genres, such as sandbox games I would be the first one to want that to be true (since I'm trying to break into indie gamedev). However, only notch with minecraft showed that so far, and while it is an immense success for an indie game - sales figures are modest in contrast to AAA games.

Goladus 16y ago

The audiences are different, it's possible for people to like Minecraft and God of War, but for different reasons. That's what I mean by different audiences. I like classical Opera and NFL Football, but they have different audiences. I picked GoW to contast with Minecraft because its a big-budget title with exactly the strengths that Minecraft lacks. It's narrowly focused on the theme of a god-slayer who engages in brutal close-combat. It's loaded with detailed, hand-crafted content that all fits together coherently, supporting that theme. The story, the art, the scenario/level design, the cinematic design, which is seamlessly integrated into the actual gameplay and superb performance on its target hardware (at least, for the length of time I've played it) all make a difference. A cow in Minecraft looks like a Gateway computer box: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6qUTQDvU4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6qUTQDvU4 A cow in God of War is a 35-foot tall minotaur whose armor spews some sort of steam as Kratos rends it asunder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_xbbD7RgCg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_xbbD7RgCg I'm not taking anything away from Minecraft here. It is a fantastic game-- the point of Minecraft is entirely different from the point of GoW. Anyone playing Minecraft cares more about what the cow represents than what it looks like. But people playing GoW care a great deal what that Minotaur looks like. They care how he looks, how he moves, how the camera tracks him during the encounter, whether there is a brief fps hit when the garbage collector kicks in, etc. Currently, to get a game full of scenes like the one linked in that GoW youtube video, you need a team of designers, artists, and developers working with excellent directors and leaders.

solipsist 16y ago
I'll go with that: the audiences are different. Obviously indie developers can't tackle every audience/genre, but notch and other indie developers have found a audience that they can server better than any big company can. That's what matters. Minecraft showed that the audience I'm talking about has tons of potential.
chipsy 16y ago
But here's the thing: Who is pushing the idea that people want the God of War cow? Are players really asking for that, or is it a fantasy on the part of publishers? Publishers definitely like the idea of pumping up their games with unnecessarily large budgets, even though it works against them on a risk/reward basis, because, at least in theory, throwing money into a game will lead to a work of higher quality than the competition. And internally, everyone in charge of such projects can fall back on the prestige and instant attention assumed from having such an obviously detailed, polished work. And yet Nintendo has never felt much need to compete on that level. They give their games plenty of marketing, for sure, but product development stays pretty tight. As far as the public knows, they never let a product explode into a monumental 4-year effort. But their games are still good and still attract a sizable audience, and they've had the most success of the big publishers in substantially expanding the game market. Comparing the two approaches, I take the opinion that most of the console publishers are overextending themselves with an outdated strategy. It was more compelling to try to push the budget upwards in past eras, where the technology was just barely making new things possible each time, and the market was full of early-adopter types who wanted to see the shiniest thing around. But the differences between the best-looking games of 2011 and the best-looking games of 2006 are pretty subtle to the uninitiated viewer, nothing like the gap between any previous five-year comparison. And the overall trend of gaming has been towards more accessibility and less (overt) complexity. So our notions of quality have to change with it, and that greatly upsets the balance of power in game development.
- stcredzero 16y ago
  internally, everyone in charge of such projects can fall back on the prestige and instant attention assumed from having such an obviously detailed, polished work. Reminds me of what I heard happened with American cars. The more space your team's components had under the hood, the more prestige you had in the company. As a result, American cars kept on getting bigger and bigger. American companies kept on ignoring the small car market, which left an inroad for foreign companies.

Keyframe 16y ago

developers like notch have shown that they can make games that will become immensely successful in new genres, such as sandbox games I would be the first one to want that to be true (since I'm trying to break into indie gamedev). However, only notch with minecraft showed that so far, and while it is an immense success for an indie game - sales figures are modest in contrast to AAA games.