8 ms·

Millennials Continue to Leave Big Cities

50 points by jseliger 7y ago

pcbangbros 7y ago
I thought they just got there?
- jteppinette 7y ago
  This was my immediate reaction. Haven't there been a lot of articles about the millennial rush to the city?
rootusrootus 7y ago
Does not seem surprising, cities are expensive places to live and millennials probably can't afford it yet.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  Millenials are between 39 and 23 years old. I don't think it's useful to pretend that their earning capacity is what defines them as a group.
  - rootusrootus 7y ago
    That is, in fact, one of the main arguments the article is making. Cities are too expensive, millennial are fleeing to less expensive suburbs. Also because public schools in the city continue to struggle compared to their suburban counterparts, and millennial with children care about that.
throwawaysea 7y ago
That’s because most cities have poor quality of life, and once you get out of the twenties, you realize quickly that some breathing room, a safe neighborhood, and a single family home with a yard make you much more happy than having access to a large number of bars, restaurants, and other city amenities that you visit less and less. Most millennials are in their thirties now and as they start families they’re realizing high-density urbanism isn’t all its cracked out to be. Of course what I’m saying isn’t universal and I think there’s a middle ground with cities that retain low-mid density zoning, but it’s my general observation nevertheless.
- limomium 7y ago
  Spot on. The difference in noise pollution, air quality, crime and drug needles laying around is staggering! Having found a wife, neither of us likes going downtown anymore. We have our own sauna and an apple tree! The only downside is, electricity is way more expensive.
  - everdrive 7y ago
    I always used to joke: "Sure, there is a very high murder rate, pollution, noise, crowds, high taxes, drug use, mugging, random assault (Baltimore), but look at all the restaurants!"
    - soylentcola 7y ago
      Yeah...we definitely have our issues. For me (early 40's now) it's also about proximity to work as well as restaurants, night life, arts, etc. But it truly is frustrating in many ways. Broader tax base needed to fund infrastructure isn't there. Lower-income residents can't pay for it. Developers and big players get breaks in order to lure/keep them. So us moderate-income residents pay the high taxes and it still isn't enough to fund what's needed. Add to it the fact that at the state-level, many residents (and their elected representatives) seem willing to just let the whole thing fall apart rather than deal with it. It's really disheartening. Still bitter that they canceled the planned metro addition that had been in the works for years and had a ton of federal funding secured. At least it's still cheaper than DC ;)
    - dx87 7y ago
      I had a co-worker who lived in Baltimore, and he'd act like he was shocked that co-workers from the suburbs thought Baltimore wasn't a good place to live or visit. Then he'd also tell us stuff like "when you visit my house, don't park more than 2 blocks away because your car will probably get broken into once the sun goes down", or that he found a homeless guy sleeping under his porch one morning, or how people on the sidewalk would pretend to mug you because they thought it was funny to scare people. He'd lived in cities his entire life though, so he thought that kind of stuff was normal, and he came from a wealthy family and lived in one of the better parts of Baltimore.
ldoughty 7y ago
A house down the street from where I grew up costs $650,000 for 1500 sq ft on a sixth of an acre. Meanwhile I was offered $55k with 2 years experience. There is also a massively crappy public transit system that lets me commute 4 hours/day to work my 8hour/day job, or I have to buy a car as well. How is the math supposed to work out? I moved out of the metro area and have been much happier for it... Sure jobs are harder to find, but when I started getting offers they actually paid a livable wage. That was my story 7-8 years ago. I could probably move back and make really good money, but the quality of life difference is atrocious and homes only got more expensive.
bigYahnz 7y ago
Why would anyone want to live in a big city?
hprotagonist 7y ago
Here's my paradox: The city i live in has a median 1BR condo price north of $500k, which I cannot afford, but i more or less have to live here because this is the hub of my field. I hate long commutes, so, I rent.
- notTyler 7y ago
  This! I had an hour plus commute living outside of Beantown when I first got out of college. I just don't want to do that again. Also one of my friends just bought for the first time and he indicated it's expensive as hell. As a single person I'm not sure I want to get into that type of financial commitment when I have a sneaking suspicion the economy's about to collapse.
- jshawl 7y ago
  Similar for me. I think of renting as an investment as well - absolutely zero surprise costs and allows me to plan further out. Not owning an (hopefully) appreciating asset means not having to maintain that asset. What’s the cost in time for buying and selling a home? I pay that financially to spend my time doing other things
- voidmain0001 7y ago
  Nothing wrong with renting, so long as you can sublet it, and you have rent control. Consider it an investment without all of the capital cost expenditures that come with a ownership. I have a coworker whose family member rented a one bdrm condo in downtown Toronto 20 years ago when she was attending university. When she left univ, she sublet it to another family member, and so on, and so on through the years. Thanks to rent control the rent has only increased a few hundred dollars over those twenty years. However, the she sublets it at current rental market value which pockets her $1000/month. Nice!
  - dasil003 7y ago
    Oh, is that all you need? Just a cheap rent controlled apartment you picked up twenty years ago with a sublet clause?! I’ve been doing it all wrong
  - 7y ago
sammyo 7y ago
"nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" -Satchel Paige.
- kiritanpo 7y ago
  That quote is attributed to Yogi Berra. You mixed up your baseball players.
yardie 7y ago
Most urban schools are highly stratified. Either cream of the crop or bottom of the barely and little in between. The best of schools have entry requirements and a waiting list. You're either brilliantly gifted or rich enough to afford the tutors to help get you there. If you're not in that group, academically, there is very few resources for you. The other inner-urban schools are just fighting to keep the heat on and have no time for you. The city I live in has no school, beyond the single K-5, within the city limits. It's a chicken and egg problem through lack of political will. The parents petition the school board to open a middle and high school. They commission a years long study. Those parents eventually have to move because of work, increases costs, and lack of schools. A new set of parents petition the school board for more schools... ad nauseam Our son has a longer commute to school than I do for work. He's lucky enough to be on a fast bus line. Him growing up in the city is orthogonal to most childhoods. He visits galleries and museums when he can. Has a lot more sympathy for the homeless. He's also gotten into the habit of skipping school lunch and going to the hipster cafe instead. All this to say I know my family occupies special circumstances that allow us to live in the city. If any one of those changes I know we'd have to look at a suburban lifestyle.
- rdtwo 7y ago
  The reason suburban districts have good public schools and urban ones have bad schools is that dividing students into school zones is a legal method of segregation. Cities and districts will intentionally build only expensive single family housing in good school districts to keep the riff raff out.
  - yardie 7y ago
    City schools usually have no address requirements. Our school even has students coming from the next county. They can get a commuter waiver because the parents work near the school. since businesses pay the same taxes it actually works out better for students and parents. The best schools have entry requirements that usually stratify by race and class.
    - cafard 7y ago
bin0 7y ago
Copy-paste from another thread, cause it's still relevant. Urban environments aren't really "nice". For all I hear about the joys of urban living, as espoused by others, I haven't enjoyed it much. Public transportation is crowded and smelly. Fat people take half of my seat (not nice to say, but I'm not sure how else to put it). Things are small, which for a taller guy like me, is pretty tough. As in, every thing is tiny. Living spaces, shops, streets. Streets often have trash strewn on them, and don't smell particularly good. I have to keep one hand on my wallet. Sometimes, hobos get aggressive. Not as much as an issue for me, but I'd hate to be a 4'9" lady. Keeping pets is hard. Cooking food is hard. I didn't have kids, but those I knew had a hard time with them. Things are very expensive. It's loud. There's a lot of traffic. Some times (all winter and some times in summer), it's bad weather for walking. I guess I shouldn't be complaining, since I at least didn't see much in the way of human feces. This is not to say there aren't up-sides. I like the food, and there are interesting people. It's also much easier to find certain things; for instance, a few major cities still have serious "maker shops" with tons of electronic components. Smaller ones or sub-urban areas often can't accommodate them, as they are in low enough demand that serious density is required. I like sub-urban living and empty green space. I can hardly blame people for moving out, if it's viable. The above applies differently to different cities; some are better, some are worse, but all have most of these problems in the urban core. Considering how expensive it is to live in a city rather than a suburb (especially if you're talking a similar amount of land), I don't want to pay more for less.
neonate 7y ago
http://archive.is/uGNld http://archive.is/uGNld
hdlothia 7y ago
It's interesting because in Atlanta the inner city is growing and the suburbs are becoming more like the city and creating walkable downtown areas. The new millennial ideal seems to be a revival of the main street and a rejection of both the strip malls and super urbanized downtowns. If millennials really didn't like the urban lifestyle then wouldn't prices be dropping instead of staying high? I was recently in a coffee shop in Ypsilanti, Michigan that was indistinguishable from one in Brooklyn. I think more and more people are realizing they can keep the things they want from trendy metros and move to places like Raleigh, Salt Lake City,Austin,Atlanta,Boise ,Dallas,Ann Arbor in exchange for lower costs and less traffic.
- helen___keller 7y ago
  > If millennials really didn't like the urban lifestyle then wouldn't prices be dropping instead of staying high? A million times this. I don't want to (and can't afford to) pay for the ultra luxury downtown destination living experience. But urban living is more than luxurious downtown destinations. I want my day-to-day trips (bringing kids to school, going to the grocery store, going to work) to be safe and accessible without a car. Just starting there implies a lot about the built environment, and your stereotypical suburb just can't offer that.
  - throwaway1777 7y ago
    Why do you want to go without a car so badly? I get not wanting one IN the city (did it for several years myself), but outside of the city driving is not bad at all.
    - helen___keller 7y ago
      It's not really the end-all-be-all, but it's a matter of personal preference that I would like to go without one if possible. Having grown up in the deep suburbs of a car-dependent city (including having a car to myself for a few years in high school), it basically comes down to this: (a) I don't like driving and I'm bad at it. (b) I don't want my kids to grow up like I grew up: with no friends in walking distance, nowhere to hang out in walking distance, ultimately bored and only spending time on the internet as a result. By the age I had a car to spend time with friends on my own terms, I basically had no social skills to speak of. (c) Driving cars just feels bad to me. Like, from an environmental point of view. I know it's not sustainable for the earth in the long-term, so it sucks feeling like I am reliant on that technology. Again, it's all personal. But having lived both without a car and completely car dependent, my optimum for quality of life is living a car-optional lifestyle, where the car is only used for the occasional luxury (e.g. a weekend trip out), not for day to day necessities.
GoToRO 7y ago
Nobody would stay in the city unless for the jobs. Sure, some cities are nicer, but not that many.
Wonnk13 7y ago
I must be very sick in the head because the thought of a single family four bedroom house 30+ min away from my work does not sound appealing at all. I quite enjoy urban life and the tapestry of humanity that fills it. Anywhere other than SF, NYC and maybe Boston and LA condo/house prices aren't too unreasonable imho.
- ummonk 7y ago
  Are you less than a 30 min walk from work?
  - Wonnk13 7y ago
    I'm about 6ft and have a slightly longer stride than most folks, I'd say I could do it comfortably in about 40 minutes. Depending on traffic lights and the such it's about 15 mins on the bike or train.
CalRobert 7y ago
It doesn't help that people in cities have voted to make it illegal to build more city. The nice bits all existed before cars. The stuff built since then is mostly parking and roads. As a result, only the wealthiest can afford to live in the nice part built before we decided apartments needed as much room for parking as for people. I'm on the older side of millenial (mid 30's). I love cities. I love walking and cycling everywhere and having a low carbon footprint and being near interesting people and great food and being able to go to museums, etc. I think having more people in cities is a requirement for stopping climate apocalypse. But after we had a kid we thought "where can we live where our kid can ride a bike and not die" and "where can we live where we can afford a home for three"? And there was... nothing. Suburbia was full of high speed arterials and only slightly less expensive homes. The core city was too expensive for a 2 bed flat. I got a remote job and we moved way out. I have cows on three sides. It's boring. The roads are still dangerous, sadly, but the house was so astonishingly cheap we can consider it effectively worthless and still come out ahead. Maybe in time we'll be eligible to live in DK, NL, etc. but until then the rural middle of nowhere is the only option that makes sense financially (if remote work holds up).
TrackerFF 7y ago
Ya, here's my story: When I moved to a rapidly expanding city from my small town, some 15 years ago, rent was pretty decent. Real-estate was on the rise, then took a hit in 2008, but has been rising ever since. Rent alone has gone up like 3 times (my first rented apartment, which cost $500 / month, now goes for $1500 / month). We used to joke that who in their right minds would pay $1500 bucks a month, unless the apartment was a complete penthouse...these days you get a 300 sq.ft for that kind of money. After college I landed a pretty nice job - but I could not shake off the feeling that I was throwing away money on increasing rents. Doing some quick calculations, I found out that I would save roughly $20000 a year on moving somewhere smaller. My job involved travel, so it didn't really make much sense anyway. So that's what I did. Moved away, and have saved soon close to $100k, which I use to invest. I visit friends in the old city every two months or so - a long-weekend tour. My younger brother is in a similar position, and it's next to impossible for his peers to get a foot inside the housing market, unless you come from resourceful families that can bankroll your first apartment. So from what I've heard, it's indeed become a "life-hack" to simply move somewhere cheaper, save like crazy, and then move back - cash rich.
rc_hadoken 7y ago
Millennial here. I like cities...the spread of ideas and culture is fast. Concerts, coffee shops (to read in) and its easier to meet hardworking people in a city(i feel like most relatively young people stay in cities at the very least until they reach their goals)...and learn how to make money just like them. Suburbs to me are where people go wait to well...die and I don't mean literally. I lived with my parents for a year after finishing school in a really nice suburb I felt suffocated. They love it. My old man always told me not to call things 'expensive' but to ask myself why I cant afford them (at the moment). If you aren't willing to make the money to live somewhere comfortable then just call it what it is: not a priority. FYI im immigrant and did not start out life well off but I did have parents that are very no nonsense and honest about why and how people choose to live where they live and why. Most just want to be comfortable and that's O.K

50 points by jseliger 7y ago

pcbangbros 7y ago

I thought they just got there?

jteppinette 7y ago
This was my immediate reaction. Haven't there been a lot of articles about the millennial rush to the city?

rootusrootus 7y ago

Does not seem surprising, cities are expensive places to live and millennials probably can't afford it yet.

Kaiyou 7y ago
Millenials are between 39 and 23 years old. I don't think it's useful to pretend that their earning capacity is what defines them as a group.
- rootusrootus 7y ago
  That is, in fact, one of the main arguments the article is making. Cities are too expensive, millennial are fleeing to less expensive suburbs. Also because public schools in the city continue to struggle compared to their suburban counterparts, and millennial with children care about that.

throwawaysea 7y ago

That’s because most cities have poor quality of life, and once you get out of the twenties, you realize quickly that some breathing room, a safe neighborhood, and a single family home with a yard make you much more happy than having access to a large number of bars, restaurants, and other city amenities that you visit less and less. Most millennials are in their thirties now and as they start families they’re realizing high-density urbanism isn’t all its cracked out to be. Of course what I’m saying isn’t universal and I think there’s a middle ground with cities that retain low-mid density zoning, but it’s my general observation nevertheless.

limomium 7y ago
Spot on. The difference in noise pollution, air quality, crime and drug needles laying around is staggering! Having found a wife, neither of us likes going downtown anymore. We have our own sauna and an apple tree! The only downside is, electricity is way more expensive.
- everdrive 7y ago
  I always used to joke: "Sure, there is a very high murder rate, pollution, noise, crowds, high taxes, drug use, mugging, random assault (Baltimore), but look at all the restaurants!"
  - soylentcola 7y ago
    Yeah...we definitely have our issues. For me (early 40's now) it's also about proximity to work as well as restaurants, night life, arts, etc. But it truly is frustrating in many ways. Broader tax base needed to fund infrastructure isn't there. Lower-income residents can't pay for it. Developers and big players get breaks in order to lure/keep them. So us moderate-income residents pay the high taxes and it still isn't enough to fund what's needed. Add to it the fact that at the state-level, many residents (and their elected representatives) seem willing to just let the whole thing fall apart rather than deal with it. It's really disheartening. Still bitter that they canceled the planned metro addition that had been in the works for years and had a ton of federal funding secured. At least it's still cheaper than DC ;)
  - dx87 7y ago
    I had a co-worker who lived in Baltimore, and he'd act like he was shocked that co-workers from the suburbs thought Baltimore wasn't a good place to live or visit. Then he'd also tell us stuff like "when you visit my house, don't park more than 2 blocks away because your car will probably get broken into once the sun goes down", or that he found a homeless guy sleeping under his porch one morning, or how people on the sidewalk would pretend to mug you because they thought it was funny to scare people. He'd lived in cities his entire life though, so he thought that kind of stuff was normal, and he came from a wealthy family and lived in one of the better parts of Baltimore.

ldoughty 7y ago

A house down the street from where I grew up costs $650,000 for 1500 sq ft on a sixth of an acre. Meanwhile I was offered $55k with 2 years experience. There is also a massively crappy public transit system that lets me commute 4 hours/day to work my 8hour/day job, or I have to buy a car as well. How is the math supposed to work out? I moved out of the metro area and have been much happier for it... Sure jobs are harder to find, but when I started getting offers they actually paid a livable wage. That was my story 7-8 years ago. I could probably move back and make really good money, but the quality of life difference is atrocious and homes only got more expensive.

bigYahnz 7y ago

Why would anyone want to live in a big city?

hprotagonist 7y ago

Here's my paradox: The city i live in has a median 1BR condo price north of $500k, which I cannot afford, but i more or less have to live here because this is the hub of my field. I hate long commutes, so, I rent.

notTyler 7y ago
This! I had an hour plus commute living outside of Beantown when I first got out of college. I just don't want to do that again. Also one of my friends just bought for the first time and he indicated it's expensive as hell. As a single person I'm not sure I want to get into that type of financial commitment when I have a sneaking suspicion the economy's about to collapse.
jshawl 7y ago
Similar for me. I think of renting as an investment as well - absolutely zero surprise costs and allows me to plan further out. Not owning an (hopefully) appreciating asset means not having to maintain that asset. What’s the cost in time for buying and selling a home? I pay that financially to spend my time doing other things
voidmain0001 7y ago
Nothing wrong with renting, so long as you can sublet it, and you have rent control. Consider it an investment without all of the capital cost expenditures that come with a ownership. I have a coworker whose family member rented a one bdrm condo in downtown Toronto 20 years ago when she was attending university. When she left univ, she sublet it to another family member, and so on, and so on through the years. Thanks to rent control the rent has only increased a few hundred dollars over those twenty years. However, the she sublets it at current rental market value which pockets her $1000/month. Nice!
- dasil003 7y ago
  Oh, is that all you need? Just a cheap rent controlled apartment you picked up twenty years ago with a sublet clause?! I’ve been doing it all wrong
- 7y ago

sammyo 7y ago

"nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded" -Satchel Paige.

kiritanpo 7y ago
That quote is attributed to Yogi Berra. You mixed up your baseball players.

yardie 7y ago

Most urban schools are highly stratified. Either cream of the crop or bottom of the barely and little in between. The best of schools have entry requirements and a waiting list. You're either brilliantly gifted or rich enough to afford the tutors to help get you there. If you're not in that group, academically, there is very few resources for you. The other inner-urban schools are just fighting to keep the heat on and have no time for you. The city I live in has no school, beyond the single K-5, within the city limits. It's a chicken and egg problem through lack of political will. The parents petition the school board to open a middle and high school. They commission a years long study. Those parents eventually have to move because of work, increases costs, and lack of schools. A new set of parents petition the school board for more schools... ad nauseam Our son has a longer commute to school than I do for work. He's lucky enough to be on a fast bus line. Him growing up in the city is orthogonal to most childhoods. He visits galleries and museums when he can. Has a lot more sympathy for the homeless. He's also gotten into the habit of skipping school lunch and going to the hipster cafe instead. All this to say I know my family occupies special circumstances that allow us to live in the city. If any one of those changes I know we'd have to look at a suburban lifestyle.

rdtwo 7y ago
The reason suburban districts have good public schools and urban ones have bad schools is that dividing students into school zones is a legal method of segregation. Cities and districts will intentionally build only expensive single family housing in good school districts to keep the riff raff out.
- yardie 7y ago
  City schools usually have no address requirements. Our school even has students coming from the next county. They can get a commuter waiver because the parents work near the school. since businesses pay the same taxes it actually works out better for students and parents. The best schools have entry requirements that usually stratify by race and class.
  - cafard 7y ago

bin0 7y ago

Copy-paste from another thread, cause it's still relevant. Urban environments aren't really "nice". For all I hear about the joys of urban living, as espoused by others, I haven't enjoyed it much. Public transportation is crowded and smelly. Fat people take half of my seat (not nice to say, but I'm not sure how else to put it). Things are small, which for a taller guy like me, is pretty tough. As in, every thing is tiny. Living spaces, shops, streets. Streets often have trash strewn on them, and don't smell particularly good. I have to keep one hand on my wallet. Sometimes, hobos get aggressive. Not as much as an issue for me, but I'd hate to be a 4'9" lady. Keeping pets is hard. Cooking food is hard. I didn't have kids, but those I knew had a hard time with them. Things are very expensive. It's loud. There's a lot of traffic. Some times (all winter and some times in summer), it's bad weather for walking. I guess I shouldn't be complaining, since I at least didn't see much in the way of human feces. This is not to say there aren't up-sides. I like the food, and there are interesting people. It's also much easier to find certain things; for instance, a few major cities still have serious "maker shops" with tons of electronic components. Smaller ones or sub-urban areas often can't accommodate them, as they are in low enough demand that serious density is required. I like sub-urban living and empty green space. I can hardly blame people for moving out, if it's viable. The above applies differently to different cities; some are better, some are worse, but all have most of these problems in the urban core. Considering how expensive it is to live in a city rather than a suburb (especially if you're talking a similar amount of land), I don't want to pay more for less.

neonate 7y ago

http://archive.is/uGNld http://archive.is/uGNld

hdlothia 7y ago

It's interesting because in Atlanta the inner city is growing and the suburbs are becoming more like the city and creating walkable downtown areas. The new millennial ideal seems to be a revival of the main street and a rejection of both the strip malls and super urbanized downtowns. If millennials really didn't like the urban lifestyle then wouldn't prices be dropping instead of staying high? I was recently in a coffee shop in Ypsilanti, Michigan that was indistinguishable from one in Brooklyn. I think more and more people are realizing they can keep the things they want from trendy metros and move to places like Raleigh, Salt Lake City,Austin,Atlanta,Boise ,Dallas,Ann Arbor in exchange for lower costs and less traffic.

helen___keller 7y ago
> If millennials really didn't like the urban lifestyle then wouldn't prices be dropping instead of staying high? A million times this. I don't want to (and can't afford to) pay for the ultra luxury downtown destination living experience. But urban living is more than luxurious downtown destinations. I want my day-to-day trips (bringing kids to school, going to the grocery store, going to work) to be safe and accessible without a car. Just starting there implies a lot about the built environment, and your stereotypical suburb just can't offer that.
- throwaway1777 7y ago
  Why do you want to go without a car so badly? I get not wanting one IN the city (did it for several years myself), but outside of the city driving is not bad at all.
  - helen___keller 7y ago
    It's not really the end-all-be-all, but it's a matter of personal preference that I would like to go without one if possible. Having grown up in the deep suburbs of a car-dependent city (including having a car to myself for a few years in high school), it basically comes down to this: (a) I don't like driving and I'm bad at it. (b) I don't want my kids to grow up like I grew up: with no friends in walking distance, nowhere to hang out in walking distance, ultimately bored and only spending time on the internet as a result. By the age I had a car to spend time with friends on my own terms, I basically had no social skills to speak of. (c) Driving cars just feels bad to me. Like, from an environmental point of view. I know it's not sustainable for the earth in the long-term, so it sucks feeling like I am reliant on that technology. Again, it's all personal. But having lived both without a car and completely car dependent, my optimum for quality of life is living a car-optional lifestyle, where the car is only used for the occasional luxury (e.g. a weekend trip out), not for day to day necessities.

GoToRO 7y ago

Nobody would stay in the city unless for the jobs. Sure, some cities are nicer, but not that many.

Wonnk13 7y ago

I must be very sick in the head because the thought of a single family four bedroom house 30+ min away from my work does not sound appealing at all. I quite enjoy urban life and the tapestry of humanity that fills it. Anywhere other than SF, NYC and maybe Boston and LA condo/house prices aren't too unreasonable imho.

ummonk 7y ago
Are you less than a 30 min walk from work?
- Wonnk13 7y ago
  I'm about 6ft and have a slightly longer stride than most folks, I'd say I could do it comfortably in about 40 minutes. Depending on traffic lights and the such it's about 15 mins on the bike or train.

CalRobert 7y ago

It doesn't help that people in cities have voted to make it illegal to build more city. The nice bits all existed before cars. The stuff built since then is mostly parking and roads. As a result, only the wealthiest can afford to live in the nice part built before we decided apartments needed as much room for parking as for people. I'm on the older side of millenial (mid 30's). I love cities. I love walking and cycling everywhere and having a low carbon footprint and being near interesting people and great food and being able to go to museums, etc. I think having more people in cities is a requirement for stopping climate apocalypse. But after we had a kid we thought "where can we live where our kid can ride a bike and not die" and "where can we live where we can afford a home for three"? And there was... nothing. Suburbia was full of high speed arterials and only slightly less expensive homes. The core city was too expensive for a 2 bed flat. I got a remote job and we moved way out. I have cows on three sides. It's boring. The roads are still dangerous, sadly, but the house was so astonishingly cheap we can consider it effectively worthless and still come out ahead. Maybe in time we'll be eligible to live in DK, NL, etc. but until then the rural middle of nowhere is the only option that makes sense financially (if remote work holds up).

TrackerFF 7y ago

Ya, here's my story: When I moved to a rapidly expanding city from my small town, some 15 years ago, rent was pretty decent. Real-estate was on the rise, then took a hit in 2008, but has been rising ever since. Rent alone has gone up like 3 times (my first rented apartment, which cost $500 / month, now goes for $1500 / month). We used to joke that who in their right minds would pay $1500 bucks a month, unless the apartment was a complete penthouse...these days you get a 300 sq.ft for that kind of money. After college I landed a pretty nice job - but I could not shake off the feeling that I was throwing away money on increasing rents. Doing some quick calculations, I found out that I would save roughly $20000 a year on moving somewhere smaller. My job involved travel, so it didn't really make much sense anyway. So that's what I did. Moved away, and have saved soon close to $100k, which I use to invest. I visit friends in the old city every two months or so - a long-weekend tour. My younger brother is in a similar position, and it's next to impossible for his peers to get a foot inside the housing market, unless you come from resourceful families that can bankroll your first apartment. So from what I've heard, it's indeed become a "life-hack" to simply move somewhere cheaper, save like crazy, and then move back - cash rich.

rc_hadoken 7y ago

Millennial here. I like cities...the spread of ideas and culture is fast. Concerts, coffee shops (to read in) and its easier to meet hardworking people in a city(i feel like most relatively young people stay in cities at the very least until they reach their goals)...and learn how to make money just like them. Suburbs to me are where people go wait to well...die and I don't mean literally. I lived with my parents for a year after finishing school in a really nice suburb I felt suffocated. They love it. My old man always told me not to call things 'expensive' but to ask myself why I cant afford them (at the moment). If you aren't willing to make the money to live somewhere comfortable then just call it what it is: not a priority. FYI im immigrant and did not start out life well off but I did have parents that are very no nonsense and honest about why and how people choose to live where they live and why. Most just want to be comfortable and that's O.K