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I don't understand this obsession with the Confederacy in Texas or in the south in general. You don't see Germany having "Nazi Soldiers Day" or Hitler statues.

by mnm1 7y ago

I don't understand this obsession with the Confederacy in Texas or in the south in general. You don't see Germany having "Nazi Soldiers Day" or Hitler statues. And there's a damn good reason for that. That kind of heritage is damaging and holds our entire society back. It's one of the many things that essentially says "slavery was ok and racism definitely still is." It's frankly, fucking disgusting. What happened should be taught in schools, but it shouldn't be celebrated with holidays and statues like it's something to be proud of. It's shameful, disgusting, and ugly and it makes those who celebrate such things shameful, disgusting, and ugly too.

shepherdjerred 7y ago
You're not going to get very far in diplomacy if you don't try to understand their point of view.
- gameswithgo 7y ago
  I live in the Texas, my mother was born in Texas, my wife is from small town texas, as are her parents and grandparents. Many people in my family have this same obsession with the confederacy. I hear them talk about it, I've lived it, and I do not understand it either. It was a revolution to defend the right to own slaves (as we stated explicitly at the time: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.htm... ) so that we could do farming. mostly. its not interesting, its disgusting, I do not see what there is to be proud of. Smart people try to explain and sound like idiots. Yes, I'm not a diplomat.
  - non-entity 7y ago
    Ironically there's a lot of intersection with ultra-nationalists
  - defertoreptar 7y ago
    I worked with a guy who was very much the type to have a confederate flag and grew up worshipping the Dukes of Hazzard. I remember when the controversy started lifting off and they began taking down statues, he was confused and upset by it. I've seen this guy around all sorts of people, and he's about the furthest thing from a racist Nazi there is. I believe the "confederate rebel" idea is a source of pride for some groups and is ingrained into their culture. Sometimes that may be mixed with antiquated and racist themes, but they're not always the same thing.
    - krapp 7y ago
      >I believe the "confederate rebel" idea is a source of pride for some groups and is ingrained into their culture. Sometimes that may be mixed with antiquated and racist themes, but they're not always the same thing. Yes. They believe the Civil War was really about states' rights and independence from Federal authority, and that slavery was just an incidental part of that greater struggle, and that their culture represents the last strain of "pure" (politically, not racially, but also kind of yes racially) American culture reflecting the original intent of the founding fathers, before the Federal government started its slide into totalitarianism. It's a lie, but like all effective lies, it's half-baked in truth. Yes, the Civil War was about states' rights... the right of states to own slaves. Yes, Southern forces fought, often valiantly, for their independence... from anti-slavery laws. Yes, there were issues other than slavery, specifically, that caused the South to secede. Every one of those issues inevitably intersects with the institution of slavery at some point. The lie is that it's possible to somehow extract Southern culture from its racist roots, as if slavery and its legacy can just be ignored and set aside as not really pertinent, when slavery was as foundational to the South and its culture as anti-Semitism was to the Nazis. Sure, Hitler designed the VW Beetle and the Nazis built the Autobahn (but not entirely), but that's no reason to fly the swastika in your window.
      - defertoreptar 7y ago
        > The lie is that it's possible to somehow extract Southern culture from its racist roots, as if slavery and its legacy can just be ignored and set aside as not really pertinent, when slavery was as foundational to the South and its culture as anti-Semitism was to the Nazis. And yet we do not hold cultures of the world accountable to their roots. Many religions and cultures of today stem from primitive patriarchal beginnings. And just as many have people within who hold these backwards views (anti semitic Palestinians, racist rednecks, Post-Apartheid racism, etc.) As soon as you generalize the people of a culture and make assumptions about them separate from the non-controversial aspects of the culture, then that is when you yourself need to question if you're being the prejudiced one.
        krapp 7y ago
- frequentnapper 7y ago
  oh we understand. we just don't accept nor tolerate celebrating or defending the right to own slaves. not in this century.
- mnm1 7y ago
  Good. Such people don't deserve diplomacy. You want to be diplomatic with someone who wants to enslave and possibly rape and kill you? Who values such things even after a war was fought so those things world no longer be the norm in our country? That's insane. Confederate supporters, like Nazis, do not deserve diplomacy. It's unfortunate their relics were allowed to exist. There should have and could have been an exception made to the first amendment for this. And don't give me this bullshit about heritage. No one wants to hear about their disgusting heritage. They should be ashamed for even bringing it up. We can learn about their horrible ancestors in school and make sure that shit never sees the light of day again, as heritage or as the reality a lot of these people want to bring back.
chippy 7y ago
> I don't understand There you have it
azernik 7y ago
It's perfectly understandable. When Germany lost the war, it disavowed the Nazi ideology. When the South lost the war, it kept on believing that white supremacy and slavery were okay.

by mnm1 7y ago

shepherdjerred 7y ago

You're not going to get very far in diplomacy if you don't try to understand their point of view.

gameswithgo 7y ago
I live in the Texas, my mother was born in Texas, my wife is from small town texas, as are her parents and grandparents. Many people in my family have this same obsession with the confederacy. I hear them talk about it, I've lived it, and I do not understand it either. It was a revolution to defend the right to own slaves (as we stated explicitly at the time: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.html https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/secession/2feb1861.htm... ) so that we could do farming. mostly. its not interesting, its disgusting, I do not see what there is to be proud of. Smart people try to explain and sound like idiots. Yes, I'm not a diplomat.
- non-entity 7y ago
  Ironically there's a lot of intersection with ultra-nationalists
- defertoreptar 7y ago
  I worked with a guy who was very much the type to have a confederate flag and grew up worshipping the Dukes of Hazzard. I remember when the controversy started lifting off and they began taking down statues, he was confused and upset by it. I've seen this guy around all sorts of people, and he's about the furthest thing from a racist Nazi there is. I believe the "confederate rebel" idea is a source of pride for some groups and is ingrained into their culture. Sometimes that may be mixed with antiquated and racist themes, but they're not always the same thing.
  - krapp 7y ago
    >I believe the "confederate rebel" idea is a source of pride for some groups and is ingrained into their culture. Sometimes that may be mixed with antiquated and racist themes, but they're not always the same thing. Yes. They believe the Civil War was really about states' rights and independence from Federal authority, and that slavery was just an incidental part of that greater struggle, and that their culture represents the last strain of "pure" (politically, not racially, but also kind of yes racially) American culture reflecting the original intent of the founding fathers, before the Federal government started its slide into totalitarianism. It's a lie, but like all effective lies, it's half-baked in truth. Yes, the Civil War was about states' rights... the right of states to own slaves. Yes, Southern forces fought, often valiantly, for their independence... from anti-slavery laws. Yes, there were issues other than slavery, specifically, that caused the South to secede. Every one of those issues inevitably intersects with the institution of slavery at some point. The lie is that it's possible to somehow extract Southern culture from its racist roots, as if slavery and its legacy can just be ignored and set aside as not really pertinent, when slavery was as foundational to the South and its culture as anti-Semitism was to the Nazis. Sure, Hitler designed the VW Beetle and the Nazis built the Autobahn (but not entirely), but that's no reason to fly the swastika in your window.
    - defertoreptar 7y ago
      > The lie is that it's possible to somehow extract Southern culture from its racist roots, as if slavery and its legacy can just be ignored and set aside as not really pertinent, when slavery was as foundational to the South and its culture as anti-Semitism was to the Nazis. And yet we do not hold cultures of the world accountable to their roots. Many religions and cultures of today stem from primitive patriarchal beginnings. And just as many have people within who hold these backwards views (anti semitic Palestinians, racist rednecks, Post-Apartheid racism, etc.) As soon as you generalize the people of a culture and make assumptions about them separate from the non-controversial aspects of the culture, then that is when you yourself need to question if you're being the prejudiced one.
      - krapp 7y ago
frequentnapper 7y ago
oh we understand. we just don't accept nor tolerate celebrating or defending the right to own slaves. not in this century.
mnm1 7y ago
Good. Such people don't deserve diplomacy. You want to be diplomatic with someone who wants to enslave and possibly rape and kill you? Who values such things even after a war was fought so those things world no longer be the norm in our country? That's insane. Confederate supporters, like Nazis, do not deserve diplomacy. It's unfortunate their relics were allowed to exist. There should have and could have been an exception made to the first amendment for this. And don't give me this bullshit about heritage. No one wants to hear about their disgusting heritage. They should be ashamed for even bringing it up. We can learn about their horrible ancestors in school and make sure that shit never sees the light of day again, as heritage or as the reality a lot of these people want to bring back.

chippy 7y ago

> I don't understand There you have it

azernik 7y ago

It's perfectly understandable. When Germany lost the war, it disavowed the Nazi ideology. When the South lost the war, it kept on believing that white supremacy and slavery were okay.