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I buy heaps of stuff with bitcoin. Not drugs or anything illegal, but computer equipment, membership fees, server hosting, domains and 2nd hand goods from frien

I buy heaps of stuff with bitcoin. Not drugs or anything illegal, but computer equipment, membership fees, server hosting, domains and 2nd hand goods from friends. And you can pay your taxes with crypto: https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/07/16/canadian-town-pay-taxes-cryptocurrency/ https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2019/07/16/canadian-town-pay... Nothing is going to replace fiat overnight, but crypto is far from "not a currency"

close04 7y ago
> I buy heaps of stuff with bitcoin You're bartering for heaps of stuff. I get heaps of stuff by offering services or other stuff in exchange. Yet my services or other stuff are not a currency. And some towns accept taxes in form of community work for example which is also not a currency. > crypto is far from "not a currency" It's explicitly called "not a currency" by both Fed and the ECB as far as I know. Now it all boils down to whether you prefer your personal definition of currency over the one coming from central banks and laws. Alternative currencies are the same as alternative facts or alternative truth. They can have the same effect as the real thing and be used successfully achieve the same purpose. But they shouldn't be confused.
- Numberwang 7y ago
  Don't waste your energy on these people. Crypto/Keto/TheDonald people can not be reasoned with. Making arguments will not work.
- miracle2k 7y ago
  Some people like Bitcoin and some people use it to pay for stuff, and they want to see more people like them, so they can transact in Bitcoin more. Some critics seem to like making frankly ill conceived semantic arguments about the academic definition of a currency (or on your case, appeals to authority), but it really has no relation to whether Bitcoin is going to succeed or not succeed.
  - close04 7y ago
    > Some people like [cigarettes] and some people use it to pay for stuff, and they want to see more people like them, so they can transact in [cigarettes] more. Therefore cigarettes are currency. Liking something is not an argument. > frankly ill conceived semantic arguments about the academic definition of a currency My argument is ill conceived because it's "just" based on the academic (legal) definition of currency? We truly do live in a world of "alternative truths” and “alternative facts” where using the actual definition of something in a relevant context is frowned upon.
    - leereeves 7y ago
      Cigarettes are currency, according to my economics professors.
      - close04 7y ago
        Yes, a good example of prison currency. Another form of currency (in prison but also outside) is sex. And it perfectly fits GP’s “argument” that “some people like it, some people pay with it, some people want more” and all that. We can either take the “everything is a currency” route but that gets us nowhere, or accept the official, legal, and recognized definition. The “ill conceived” argument based “only” on facts so to speak.
        leereeves 7y ago
        What's your source for an "official, legal, and recognized definition"? The definition used by economists includes much more than just fiat money. The definition in most dictionaries includes anything used a medium of exchange. Paper money isn't even the most common form of currency these days (beaten by credit cards, checks, and electronic funds transfer).
        close04 7y ago
        > What's your source for an "official, legal, and recognized definition"? Most (important) national central banks as mentioned in my original comment.
- celticninja 7y ago
  But I'm bartering if I use £/$/€ too then. I barter my work for tokens, I exchange the tokens for goods. Does it matter what the tokens are if I can exchange them?
  - buran77 7y ago
    It matters because currencies, securities, and commodities are regulated differently and by different institutions. It may sound to you like they should be the same but they're not. They are different financial instruments, just like bonds and stocks are different from cash. What would you think if someone called an L3 cache "a CPU RAM", or an SD card a "micro hard disk"? We're on a highly technical site so I would expect the same degree of accuracy when using terms from other fields as you expect when talking computers.
    - celticninja 7y ago
      Well I think your expectations are wrong, but think of it like this, the end user doesn't care if the work is being done by an L3 cache or a "CPU ram", they could call it a "CPU cache", and as long as it does what they expect it to do they don't care for the specifics. In this example, bitcoin can be exchanged for goods and services, much like an approved currency,so the end user doesn't care what you call it just that it works,and in that respect bitcoin does work.
ForHackernews 7y ago
Cryptocurrencies are fiat currencies: They have no intrinsic value except what people collectively agree to pretend they do. It's paper money on a computer. At least gold has real uses in jewellery and industrial applications to put a floor under its value.

close04 7y ago

> I buy heaps of stuff with bitcoin You're bartering for heaps of stuff. I get heaps of stuff by offering services or other stuff in exchange. Yet my services or other stuff are not a currency. And some towns accept taxes in form of community work for example which is also not a currency. > crypto is far from "not a currency" It's explicitly called "not a currency" by both Fed and the ECB as far as I know. Now it all boils down to whether you prefer your personal definition of currency over the one coming from central banks and laws. Alternative currencies are the same as alternative facts or alternative truth. They can have the same effect as the real thing and be used successfully achieve the same purpose. But they shouldn't be confused.

Numberwang 7y ago
Don't waste your energy on these people. Crypto/Keto/TheDonald people can not be reasoned with. Making arguments will not work.
miracle2k 7y ago
Some people like Bitcoin and some people use it to pay for stuff, and they want to see more people like them, so they can transact in Bitcoin more. Some critics seem to like making frankly ill conceived semantic arguments about the academic definition of a currency (or on your case, appeals to authority), but it really has no relation to whether Bitcoin is going to succeed or not succeed.
- close04 7y ago
  > Some people like [cigarettes] and some people use it to pay for stuff, and they want to see more people like them, so they can transact in [cigarettes] more. Therefore cigarettes are currency. Liking something is not an argument. > frankly ill conceived semantic arguments about the academic definition of a currency My argument is ill conceived because it's "just" based on the academic (legal) definition of currency? We truly do live in a world of "alternative truths” and “alternative facts” where using the actual definition of something in a relevant context is frowned upon.
  - leereeves 7y ago
    Cigarettes are currency, according to my economics professors.
    - close04 7y ago
      Yes, a good example of prison currency. Another form of currency (in prison but also outside) is sex. And it perfectly fits GP’s “argument” that “some people like it, some people pay with it, some people want more” and all that. We can either take the “everything is a currency” route but that gets us nowhere, or accept the official, legal, and recognized definition. The “ill conceived” argument based “only” on facts so to speak.
      - leereeves 7y ago
        What's your source for an "official, legal, and recognized definition"? The definition used by economists includes much more than just fiat money. The definition in most dictionaries includes anything used a medium of exchange. Paper money isn't even the most common form of currency these days (beaten by credit cards, checks, and electronic funds transfer).
        close04 7y ago
        > What's your source for an "official, legal, and recognized definition"? Most (important) national central banks as mentioned in my original comment.
celticninja 7y ago
But I'm bartering if I use £/$/€ too then. I barter my work for tokens, I exchange the tokens for goods. Does it matter what the tokens are if I can exchange them?
- buran77 7y ago
  It matters because currencies, securities, and commodities are regulated differently and by different institutions. It may sound to you like they should be the same but they're not. They are different financial instruments, just like bonds and stocks are different from cash. What would you think if someone called an L3 cache "a CPU RAM", or an SD card a "micro hard disk"? We're on a highly technical site so I would expect the same degree of accuracy when using terms from other fields as you expect when talking computers.
  - celticninja 7y ago
    Well I think your expectations are wrong, but think of it like this, the end user doesn't care if the work is being done by an L3 cache or a "CPU ram", they could call it a "CPU cache", and as long as it does what they expect it to do they don't care for the specifics. In this example, bitcoin can be exchanged for goods and services, much like an approved currency,so the end user doesn't care what you call it just that it works,and in that respect bitcoin does work.

ForHackernews 7y ago

Cryptocurrencies are fiat currencies: They have no intrinsic value except what people collectively agree to pretend they do. It's paper money on a computer. At least gold has real uses in jewellery and industrial applications to put a floor under its value.