4 ms·

Do you think that an open source dating app or a decentralized dating protocol would be a good idea?

jimmaswell 7y ago
Dating apps are a failed idea. If you're a man and have any imperfections appearance-wise you'll go on these sites and get no responses. In college I did hundreds of swipes and sent a bunch of messages on OKC and got nothing because I wasn't a human Ken doll. I could've spent all day in the gym and gotten plastic surgery and spent hundreds on whatever wardrobe was in style but why do all that for people who can't appreciate you for anything else but how likely you are to be in a Calvin Klein ad? I've seen experiments where they put male model pictures on tinder profiles that say stuff like being nazis and convicted rapists and surprise, they got more matches (a ton) than me (0) with my well-thought-out profile/pictures but not literally Brad Pitt.
- ddenisen 7y ago
  So I've had an interesting experience recently. Like you, I've used Tinder and other dating apps fairly unsuccessfully in the past (close to zero matches, those who match don't respond, yadda yadda). I live in the US (West Coast), but I'm originally from Russia, and I finally got to go back home (a major Russian city) this summer for a few weeks' vacation. On a suggestion of a longtime friend I've met with there, I've created a Tinder profile. Just put up some mediocre photos of myself and listed my hobbies, mentioned I am visiting for a few weeks. The difference from the US was quite startling. I got literally hundreds of likes and dozens of matches. (my like counter showed 99+ after a week). The matches weren't bots either. They were actual women, and a decent number of them responded to my messages. I've actually ended up meeting four different women in person during a time span of two weeks. We've had some good in person conversations and I still keep in touch with at least one of them. They didn't seem like they just wanted me so that I can bring them to the US, either, as that never came up in conversations and they seemed fairly happy where they currently are. I was honestly quite sad to leave and come home to the USA because it felt like I'm returning to a social wasteland. Later, I've on a whim set my Tinder location to Philippines one night (might be going there for work this winter), and got a decent number of matches instantly, and the ones I've talked to responded willingly. I've also gotten a ton of matches when I was on vacation in Dominican Republic last winter. Of course, if I use my actual location (Seattle) I still get basically zero matches. I've had similar low success in Western Europe. So, your dating app status as a dude is really location dependent.
  - xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
    AIUI, foreigners are generally promoted by the matching algorithms.
    - treis 7y ago
      Plus someone from the US is attractive to women looking to immigrate.
- xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
  I'm sympathetic but I disagree they're a failed idea. Far from perfect, but I know plenty of folks with appearance imperfections that have had great success on dating sites -- some now married to their matches, with kids! Anecdotally, the most successful (in terms of turn around, partners, matches, dates, etc.) male I know is overweight, has poor hygiene, and is somewhat misogynistic. Conversely, I know perfectly handsome men who could be models who strike out all the time. Sure, good looking people might get more matches, but do they universally convert at a higher rate? No. If anything, they spend more time interacting with these apps in a less productive manner.
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    Did the successful one flaunt some status symbol in his pictures or bio?
  - 05 7y ago
    > If anything, they spend more time interacting with these apps in a less productive manner. Only because their standards are set higher due to needing to filter the incoming stream of matches to a manageable drip of first dates. In the end, their outcome is better. Just like you would interact on LinkedIn 'in a less productive manner' being a rockstar developer @FAANG..
- wmp56 7y ago
  I think women mostly look at social status of men. Appearance is only a plus. An ideal candidate is a wealthy gentleman with manners.
  - CuriouslyC 7y ago
    It isn't a good idea to generalize women, they're very diverse. I know plenty who don't really care about wealth or manners but love a big tough guy that makes them feel safe and fucks them hard.
    - wmp56 7y ago
      OK, the 95% percentile, if we want to be pedantic. Regardless, this comment tree is going to be taken down because you used a banned word.
- CuriouslyC 7y ago
  The people on dating apps aren't really bad. The problem is the male-female asymmetry. On most dating sites men outnumber women five to tenfold. Additionally, most guys will spam likes and messages to hundreds of women. The hyper selectivity of women on these sites is mostly the result of trying to keep their heads above water. You should be aware that the "experiments" people have posted online aren't necessarily unbiased either. There are a lot of bitter, loveless men writing content on the internet.
  - claudiawerner 7y ago
    Although I don't condone the "experiments" (of which the bias shouldn't be a concern so long as they're accurately presenting the data - you can't get much more accurate than screenshots, which out of the principle of charity it makes some sense to give credence to at first glance) I wouldn't blame men for feeling bitter and loveless after online dating experience. You'll find countless men (and women, but for different reasons) feeling utterly hopeless and defeated after experiences on online dating apps. You've put yourself out there, people have seen your profile, and people didn't like you. Getting zero matches (other than bots) after a few months can cripple one's self-esteem. If you were to complain about it, you're either hit with advice from the infamous rules 1 and 2 (1. be attractive; 2. don't be unattractive), or you'll get some advice which is well-meaning but hardly actionable. The one I see most frequently is "try and meet people at bars" (it's hard to imagine this working today, and it almost requires one to be a drinker - and even then it's harder not to come off as creepy) and "join some activity groups". The real kicker is that many activities that you already enjoy are biased to one gender or the other (say, compsci/engineering hobbies and chess tend to be heavily male-centric in real life meetings), and it's very hard to find the passion for an activity if you started doing it just to try and find a date (and people will usually pick up on the fact). It can also leave one feeling superficial and creepy to do so. I know many men (and some women) who've decided to give up. Men because they have lost hope on account of not having a strong enough appearance to persuade someone to read their bio, which often reeks of desperation anyway (one may be short, another may be fat, yet another may be ugly, yet another just prefers Android[0][1]). Women because they only feel valued for their appearance, or just for being a woman, rather than what makes them who they are. I expect the problem to get worse, where online, centralized dating platforms become the norm, and when it's harder to make friends in real life, in which getting to know someone first outranks any consideration of appearances. If you're not already friends with someone, it's very easy to accept or reject on what is immediately visible - one's appearance. [0] https://www.cultofmac.com/563567/iphone-vs-android-could-be-ruining-your-dating-life/ https://www.cultofmac.com/563567/iphone-vs-android-could-be-... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/14/14619158/apple-iphone-google-android-judgemental-dating-study https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/14/14619158/apple-iphone-goo...
- Eli_P 7y ago
  Dating apps today are more like gambling with your time. Its mechanics is pretty same as for lottery game, so it will generate profits for the same reason all scams do with our primate brain. Monkey gives a banana now and expects 10^6 bananas later. Last time I used Tinder they seemed to make a right move towards video chats. If I were to develop a dating app, I'd incorporate vid chat as the only way to communicate. Ain't streaming video of yourself atm -- you don't exist at all, can't be found or swiped on. Procrastination & waste of time -> 0. Also real-time video basically renders any account validation unnecessary because all Photoshop guys/gals went to learn neural networks and how to implement DeepFake face replace.
wmp56 7y ago
I have one idea that I'm working on now. It will be open source (both app and the server, AGPLv3), but only to prove that it doesn't do anything fishy. There is no way it can make money, though, but luckily, I don't need that. You probably meant to ask how to make a dating app that also makes money in an honest and upfront way. Such services had existed long before the internet, you know them well, and they just honestly recognize the true reasons why men and women want to date. In short: human moderation with the premium to access the high quality dating pool. Obviously, fees there are way higher than what most people can afford.
TallGuyShort 7y ago
If you think that compounding the gender-skewed demographics of current dating apps with the similarly gender-skewed demographics of most open-source communities is a good idea.

Dating apps are a failed idea. If you're a man and have any imperfections appearance-wise you'll go on these sites and get no responses. In college I did hundreds of swipes and sent a bunch of messages on OKC and got nothing because I wasn't a human Ken doll. I could've spent all day in the gym and gotten plastic surgery and spent hundreds on whatever wardrobe was in style but why do all that for people who can't appreciate you for anything else but how likely you are to be in a Calvin Klein ad? I've seen experiments where they put male model pictures on tinder profiles that say stuff like being nazis and convicted rapists and surprise, they got more matches (a ton) than me (0) with my well-thought-out profile/pictures but not literally Brad Pitt.

ddenisen 7y ago
So I've had an interesting experience recently. Like you, I've used Tinder and other dating apps fairly unsuccessfully in the past (close to zero matches, those who match don't respond, yadda yadda). I live in the US (West Coast), but I'm originally from Russia, and I finally got to go back home (a major Russian city) this summer for a few weeks' vacation. On a suggestion of a longtime friend I've met with there, I've created a Tinder profile. Just put up some mediocre photos of myself and listed my hobbies, mentioned I am visiting for a few weeks. The difference from the US was quite startling. I got literally hundreds of likes and dozens of matches. (my like counter showed 99+ after a week). The matches weren't bots either. They were actual women, and a decent number of them responded to my messages. I've actually ended up meeting four different women in person during a time span of two weeks. We've had some good in person conversations and I still keep in touch with at least one of them. They didn't seem like they just wanted me so that I can bring them to the US, either, as that never came up in conversations and they seemed fairly happy where they currently are. I was honestly quite sad to leave and come home to the USA because it felt like I'm returning to a social wasteland. Later, I've on a whim set my Tinder location to Philippines one night (might be going there for work this winter), and got a decent number of matches instantly, and the ones I've talked to responded willingly. I've also gotten a ton of matches when I was on vacation in Dominican Republic last winter. Of course, if I use my actual location (Seattle) I still get basically zero matches. I've had similar low success in Western Europe. So, your dating app status as a dude is really location dependent.
- xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
  AIUI, foreigners are generally promoted by the matching algorithms.
  - treis 7y ago
    Plus someone from the US is attractive to women looking to immigrate.
xyzzy_plugh 7y ago
I'm sympathetic but I disagree they're a failed idea. Far from perfect, but I know plenty of folks with appearance imperfections that have had great success on dating sites -- some now married to their matches, with kids! Anecdotally, the most successful (in terms of turn around, partners, matches, dates, etc.) male I know is overweight, has poor hygiene, and is somewhat misogynistic. Conversely, I know perfectly handsome men who could be models who strike out all the time. Sure, good looking people might get more matches, but do they universally convert at a higher rate? No. If anything, they spend more time interacting with these apps in a less productive manner.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Did the successful one flaunt some status symbol in his pictures or bio?
- 05 7y ago
  > If anything, they spend more time interacting with these apps in a less productive manner. Only because their standards are set higher due to needing to filter the incoming stream of matches to a manageable drip of first dates. In the end, their outcome is better. Just like you would interact on LinkedIn 'in a less productive manner' being a rockstar developer @FAANG..
wmp56 7y ago
I think women mostly look at social status of men. Appearance is only a plus. An ideal candidate is a wealthy gentleman with manners.
- CuriouslyC 7y ago
  It isn't a good idea to generalize women, they're very diverse. I know plenty who don't really care about wealth or manners but love a big tough guy that makes them feel safe and fucks them hard.
  - wmp56 7y ago
    OK, the 95% percentile, if we want to be pedantic. Regardless, this comment tree is going to be taken down because you used a banned word.
CuriouslyC 7y ago
The people on dating apps aren't really bad. The problem is the male-female asymmetry. On most dating sites men outnumber women five to tenfold. Additionally, most guys will spam likes and messages to hundreds of women. The hyper selectivity of women on these sites is mostly the result of trying to keep their heads above water. You should be aware that the "experiments" people have posted online aren't necessarily unbiased either. There are a lot of bitter, loveless men writing content on the internet.
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  Although I don't condone the "experiments" (of which the bias shouldn't be a concern so long as they're accurately presenting the data - you can't get much more accurate than screenshots, which out of the principle of charity it makes some sense to give credence to at first glance) I wouldn't blame men for feeling bitter and loveless after online dating experience. You'll find countless men (and women, but for different reasons) feeling utterly hopeless and defeated after experiences on online dating apps. You've put yourself out there, people have seen your profile, and people didn't like you. Getting zero matches (other than bots) after a few months can cripple one's self-esteem. If you were to complain about it, you're either hit with advice from the infamous rules 1 and 2 (1. be attractive; 2. don't be unattractive), or you'll get some advice which is well-meaning but hardly actionable. The one I see most frequently is "try and meet people at bars" (it's hard to imagine this working today, and it almost requires one to be a drinker - and even then it's harder not to come off as creepy) and "join some activity groups". The real kicker is that many activities that you already enjoy are biased to one gender or the other (say, compsci/engineering hobbies and chess tend to be heavily male-centric in real life meetings), and it's very hard to find the passion for an activity if you started doing it just to try and find a date (and people will usually pick up on the fact). It can also leave one feeling superficial and creepy to do so. I know many men (and some women) who've decided to give up. Men because they have lost hope on account of not having a strong enough appearance to persuade someone to read their bio, which often reeks of desperation anyway (one may be short, another may be fat, yet another may be ugly, yet another just prefers Android[0][1]). Women because they only feel valued for their appearance, or just for being a woman, rather than what makes them who they are. I expect the problem to get worse, where online, centralized dating platforms become the norm, and when it's harder to make friends in real life, in which getting to know someone first outranks any consideration of appearances. If you're not already friends with someone, it's very easy to accept or reject on what is immediately visible - one's appearance. [0] https://www.cultofmac.com/563567/iphone-vs-android-could-be-ruining-your-dating-life/ https://www.cultofmac.com/563567/iphone-vs-android-could-be-... [1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/14/14619158/apple-iphone-google-android-judgemental-dating-study https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/14/14619158/apple-iphone-goo...
Eli_P 7y ago
Dating apps today are more like gambling with your time. Its mechanics is pretty same as for lottery game, so it will generate profits for the same reason all scams do with our primate brain. Monkey gives a banana now and expects 10^6 bananas later. Last time I used Tinder they seemed to make a right move towards video chats. If I were to develop a dating app, I'd incorporate vid chat as the only way to communicate. Ain't streaming video of yourself atm -- you don't exist at all, can't be found or swiped on. Procrastination & waste of time -> 0. Also real-time video basically renders any account validation unnecessary because all Photoshop guys/gals went to learn neural networks and how to implement DeepFake face replace.

wmp56 7y ago

I have one idea that I'm working on now. It will be open source (both app and the server, AGPLv3), but only to prove that it doesn't do anything fishy. There is no way it can make money, though, but luckily, I don't need that. You probably meant to ask how to make a dating app that also makes money in an honest and upfront way. Such services had existed long before the internet, you know them well, and they just honestly recognize the true reasons why men and women want to date. In short: human moderation with the premium to access the high quality dating pool. Obviously, fees there are way higher than what most people can afford.

TallGuyShort 7y ago

If you think that compounding the gender-skewed demographics of current dating apps with the similarly gender-skewed demographics of most open-source communities is a good idea.