8 ms·

Some people draw a distinction between simple comment threads and things like Facebook, Twitter, etc.

giarc 7y ago
Really? People post articles/pictures/links, people comment on it and discuss, you can show your like/dislike on the article with a single click. Am I describing Facebook or HN?
- dawg- 7y ago
  I guess HN and similar platforms could fit into the social media box, broadly. Taken extremely literally, they are mediated social environments. But I would absolutely make a distinction between sites like HN and "real deal" social media. Social media companies like Facebook and Twitter measure success by things like user engagement and time spent on the platform - and their design principles are optimized to max out those measurements. That's how they create more value for advertisers and make billions of dollars. This site is a social experiment in creating civil online discussion. Facebook and co. are a social experiment in hacking human behavior to create compulsive users who consume advertising with (measurable, trackable, hackable) enthusiasm. I don't think HN would get much buzz for an IPO. :)
  - simondw 7y ago
    What does an IPO have to do with whether a platform is social? From your analysis, it almost sounds like HN is more social than the behavior-hacking money machines. The big companies might own the most commonly used social media, but that hardly means their model is the only one.
    - rubbingalcohol 7y ago
      This is absurd. You and others nitpicking this person to death and creating false equivalencies while ignoring the content of their argument. I too will not welcome our amoral surveillance overlords onto or into my body. I hope that is a clear enough statement for people to understand.
    - dawg- 7y ago
      >it almost sounds like HN is more social than the behavior-hacking money machines Excellent point! You have gotten to the core of the issue. Mediated social interaction is not more social. It's just a way to harvest data. Mere "connection", in the language of FB who aims to "connect the world", doesn't equal better and more fulfilling communication.
- bradstewart 7y ago
  But one is tracking your every move to show you ads. Online forums, Usenet, IRC, etc existed long before anyone used the term "social media".
  - megaremote 7y ago
    You have no idea whether this website is doing that too.
  - drdaeman 7y ago
    They were and they are the original social media. I've found more acquaintances and friends (and even more) on various online forums and chats than on what people call "social networks" those days. "Social" is about interpersonal communications. Ads and tracking are - arguably - irrelevant implementation details, not some inherent property of "social networking". User engagement is (and good communities always have it), but artificially trying to boost with ethically questionable profiling technologies and various dark patterns isn't.
- coldtea 7y ago
  Similarities don't mean anything. It's the differences that count to distinguish things. Else, "European, male, dark eyes, had a small black moustache below his nose, was admired by millions in his prime, had artistic aspirations, had distinctive bodily and facial mannerisms" -- am I describing Charlie Chaplin or someone more ominous?
  - simondw 7y ago
    > Similarities don't mean anything ...beyond the similarities themselves, that is. > It's the differences that count to distinguish things By definition. But then again, if I'm comparing the impact of two dictators, it's probably not helpful to point out that they had different hair colors. I think what you're really saying is that in a particular context, some properties are relevant, and others aren't. There's no point in pointing out that irrelevant properties are shared, but equally there's no point in pointing out irrelevant properties that are different. In other words, people just have to be clear about what they're talking about.
- akincisor 7y ago
  Only on one of them: - Your "friends" are known and tracked - The content you view is determined by your browsing history, ad tracking and that of your "friends" - The composition of the audience that's voting is poorly informed and susceptible to non-critical thinking (YMMV) On both of them: - Stories are posted to maximize your outrage/other emotional response - Content of stories rarely matches the titles Social interaction and even a like button is not the problem. What the like button does is the problem.
- davesque 7y ago
  I'm simply stating a fact, not an opinion. Wasn't trying to spark a debate.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- fortran77 7y ago
  The "I don't do social media" people who are all over Hacker News and other forums are like the "I Don't Watch TV" people who watch Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and YouTube on their iPhones all evening.
  - prepend 7y ago
    “I don’t drink beer. I only drink lagers and ales.”
  - davesque 7y ago
    I think OP's point was that they don't do online forums where misinformation is placed in front of your face because you appear to be friends with so-and-so or they've pegged you as belonging to a certain demographic. I also think on some level you knew that but went ahead and made some auxiliary point about the meaning of the term "social media" for HN brownie points.
paulcole 7y ago
That’s convenient lol.

Really? People post articles/pictures/links, people comment on it and discuss, you can show your like/dislike on the article with a single click. Am I describing Facebook or HN?

dawg- 7y ago
I guess HN and similar platforms could fit into the social media box, broadly. Taken extremely literally, they are mediated social environments. But I would absolutely make a distinction between sites like HN and "real deal" social media. Social media companies like Facebook and Twitter measure success by things like user engagement and time spent on the platform - and their design principles are optimized to max out those measurements. That's how they create more value for advertisers and make billions of dollars. This site is a social experiment in creating civil online discussion. Facebook and co. are a social experiment in hacking human behavior to create compulsive users who consume advertising with (measurable, trackable, hackable) enthusiasm. I don't think HN would get much buzz for an IPO. :)
- simondw 7y ago
  What does an IPO have to do with whether a platform is social? From your analysis, it almost sounds like HN is more social than the behavior-hacking money machines. The big companies might own the most commonly used social media, but that hardly means their model is the only one.
  - rubbingalcohol 7y ago
    This is absurd. You and others nitpicking this person to death and creating false equivalencies while ignoring the content of their argument. I too will not welcome our amoral surveillance overlords onto or into my body. I hope that is a clear enough statement for people to understand.
  - dawg- 7y ago
    >it almost sounds like HN is more social than the behavior-hacking money machines Excellent point! You have gotten to the core of the issue. Mediated social interaction is not more social. It's just a way to harvest data. Mere "connection", in the language of FB who aims to "connect the world", doesn't equal better and more fulfilling communication.
bradstewart 7y ago
But one is tracking your every move to show you ads. Online forums, Usenet, IRC, etc existed long before anyone used the term "social media".
- megaremote 7y ago
  You have no idea whether this website is doing that too.
- drdaeman 7y ago
  They were and they are the original social media. I've found more acquaintances and friends (and even more) on various online forums and chats than on what people call "social networks" those days. "Social" is about interpersonal communications. Ads and tracking are - arguably - irrelevant implementation details, not some inherent property of "social networking". User engagement is (and good communities always have it), but artificially trying to boost with ethically questionable profiling technologies and various dark patterns isn't.
coldtea 7y ago
Similarities don't mean anything. It's the differences that count to distinguish things. Else, "European, male, dark eyes, had a small black moustache below his nose, was admired by millions in his prime, had artistic aspirations, had distinctive bodily and facial mannerisms" -- am I describing Charlie Chaplin or someone more ominous?
- simondw 7y ago
  > Similarities don't mean anything ...beyond the similarities themselves, that is. > It's the differences that count to distinguish things By definition. But then again, if I'm comparing the impact of two dictators, it's probably not helpful to point out that they had different hair colors. I think what you're really saying is that in a particular context, some properties are relevant, and others aren't. There's no point in pointing out that irrelevant properties are shared, but equally there's no point in pointing out irrelevant properties that are different. In other words, people just have to be clear about what they're talking about.
akincisor 7y ago
Only on one of them: - Your "friends" are known and tracked - The content you view is determined by your browsing history, ad tracking and that of your "friends" - The composition of the audience that's voting is poorly informed and susceptible to non-critical thinking (YMMV) On both of them: - Stories are posted to maximize your outrage/other emotional response - Content of stories rarely matches the titles Social interaction and even a like button is not the problem. What the like button does is the problem.
davesque 7y ago
I'm simply stating a fact, not an opinion. Wasn't trying to spark a debate.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
fortran77 7y ago
The "I don't do social media" people who are all over Hacker News and other forums are like the "I Don't Watch TV" people who watch Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, and YouTube on their iPhones all evening.
- prepend 7y ago
  “I don’t drink beer. I only drink lagers and ales.”
- davesque 7y ago
  I think OP's point was that they don't do online forums where misinformation is placed in front of your face because you appear to be friends with so-and-so or they've pegged you as belonging to a certain demographic. I also think on some level you knew that but went ahead and made some auxiliary point about the meaning of the term "social media" for HN brownie points.

paulcole 7y ago

That’s convenient lol.