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This is absolutely the biggest story in America, and most people aren't talking about it. An entire generation is draining their savings to keep up with premiu

This is absolutely the biggest story in America, and most people aren't talking about it. An entire generation is draining their savings to keep up with premium costs. Not to mention the millions of people locked into careers they would otherwise get out of, if not for the health coverage. This situation is probably going to lead to unbelievable outcomes.

fennecfoxen 7y ago
> ... and most people aren't talking about it. Have you looked at a newspaper since, say, 2007 or so? You will find that many have politics sections which have spent an awful lot of time covering the matter. Other news sources frequently cover it as well.
cafebabbe 7y ago
It's rather painful to watch from this side of the Atlantic. I guess that I need to acknowledge this is really what most people want in America.
- cschep 7y ago
  It isn't what "most" people want. It's what the rich people in power want.
Someone1234 7y ago
I just want to tack on: People being forced to skip simple preventative medicine, potentially building up a ticking time bomb when those conditions become more expensive to treat.
MuffinFlavored 7y ago
> An entire generation is draining their savings to keep up with premium costs. Knock on wood but, myself and pretty much everybody I know has insurance covered ~75% through our full time employers. I think my portion of my insurance is about... $100/mo? I've never had to use it way/shape/form in the past... 5-10 years. Isn't the truth that the most unhealthy people are what drives health care costs? It'd be interesting to see a visual of who uses their insurance and how much of it they use. Let's not forget that lack of exercise, obesity, and heart disease are rampant in America.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  It seems to be more the exception, rather than the rule, that you will continue to be fine without medical coverage for eternity. One day, something is going to happen. Consumption of health care tends to be back-loaded in life.
- geddy 7y ago
  Yeah, I really wonder where that $10,000/person figure comes from when you remove obesity and smoking related illnesses, so, the two highest and most preventable causes of death in this country. I always believed you should be able to qualify for lower costs (or be charged higher) depending on how you take care of yourself. Annual physical fitness test. I'm a little sick and tired of paying high premiums for people to have healthcare that don't take care of themselves.
  - geggam 7y ago
    Many of us who won the genetic lottery are sick of paying for those who didn't Where do you draw this line ? If someone cannot afford to eat or live a healthy lifestyle do you kick them while they are down ?
    - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
      The brotherhood of "we can all band together to pay for each other" falls apart when the line to McDonald's is wrapped around the corner in my eyes. If you take in over 3,500 calories a day of pizza, soda, cheeseburgers, or candy then follow it up with little to no exercise/movement, you are contributing to the "health insurance crisis".
  - throwaway22424 7y ago
    > I always believed you should be able to qualify for lower costs (or be charged higher) depending on how you take care of yourself. Annual physical fitness test. I'm a little sick and tired of paying high premiums for people to have healthcare that don't take care of themselves. Better hope you never get in a car accident or similar accident or get diagnosed with cancer or a chronic condition. Congratulations for being in perfect health and not needing any sort of medical care. There are plenty of people who don't smoke and aren't obese and can still be bankrupt by standard medical treatments. I would bet money (let's say the value of my annual insurance premiums) that if the two of us took a physical fitness test or compared overall "health" in areas that are more controllable (weigh, cholesterol, body fat percentage, amount of exercise, and other indicators like smoking/drug/alcohol use), I would be considered healthier than you. But I have an endocrine condition that requires very expensive medication and annual tests that cost a lot of money. You're selfish, and that's fine. But the second you ever actually need health care, I hope you remember how quickly you dismiss "people who don't take care of themselves."
JamesSchriver 7y ago
I realize the avg YC visitor will not want to hear this, but when you are taking care of 1) literally tens of millions of foreign nationals that have washed up on America's shored with all manner of maladies and even diseases that never existed in the USA before, and others that have been eradicated for decades, and all those people bring in multiples of their family members with all manner of other maladies and are of elderly age, who then immediately go on medicare and social security. And illegals the emergency rooms for any and all maladies since all of them are of course criminals (regardless of whether you want to split legal hairs, they are still violators or both the rule of law and committing major offenses against the society and people they are parasitizing). 2) The population is full of clusters of immensely unhealthy populations like blacks that are wildly disproportionately affected by specific diseases like sickle cell and kidney diseases and also lead wildly disproportionately unhealthy lifestyles with obesity rates off the chart all around the south in particular. 3) Our corporation captured government is utterly corrupt and politicians and the health sector is too busy lining each others's pockets to actually provide any real leadership of the country neither have any loyalty to anymore and are just trying to get rich off faster than the next guy before the music stops. Just look at the stocks of health industry companies before and after "Obamacare" passed that was a massive last minute bait and switch pork barrel profit maker for the health industry, while essentially plundering hard working Americans to pay for the healthcare of millions of foreigners that have been imported into the USA against the enslaved American population's will … because having the product of your work taken from you to support the life and lifestyle of others against your will and under threat of violence and ruin is nothing but slavery. So here wer are, paying twice as much for half the health care we got just 10 years ago when it was said it was bad, but at least millions of foreign nationals are taken care of at the American tax slave's cost.
- seppin 7y ago
  Hi. Do you have any sources for any of this? Otherwise it sounds like quite the racist rant against anything foreign
- dang 7y ago
  We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamewar comments to HN and ignoring our requests to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
throwaway22424 7y ago
> Not to mention the millions of people locked into careers they would otherwise get out of, if not for the health coverage. Replying with a throwaway for obvious reasons. I work at one of the big tech companies -- I'm paid well, but the benefits are very good. I just got an offer from a startup that I really like. It's a job I would like to take. I'm going to have to turn down the offer. Part of the reason I'm going to have to turn it down is that even though it offers insurance, its coverage isn't as good as what I have and the subsidy offered will add $15k a year minimum to my health care expenses. My partner needs surgery (an expensive surgery), and I'm the primary bread-winner (for now) -- I have to make pragmatic decisions because of stuff like healthcare, even at the expense of my own aspirations. And to be clear, my scenario is significantly better than so many others who are stuck in truly terrible places (where I work is not terrible by a longshot) or in careers they would like to change, because the truth is, health care in the US is a joke.
- JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
  Sounds like this could be solved, if the startup could offer a higher base salary, bonus, or a combination.
  - charwalker 7y ago
    Yes, but that isn't the root cause is it? Even if the current employer is big enough to negotiate lower prices or deals for its coverage and that's a barrier to entry for the startup, both companies could be set one a level field in a universal healthcare system removing this cost center from both companies. Even if the cost is (partially) rolled into something like payroll or income taxes, it would still impact the big company and the startup much more equitably. Barriers to entry are one item this site and many of its users and are fighting to better disrupt industries and create value. If you can't get talent because you can't provide healthcare and a solution for that exists in most developed nations (universal care), why are we not engaging that?
    - hardtke 7y ago
      Large employers are self insured. The insurance companies just manage the benefits. In that sense there is no negotiation, beyond a manager fee. Price is determined by health of employees and benefit level.
claudeganon 7y ago
It’s also an absolute moral disgrace that we’ve decide the profits of insurance industry and other for profit entities are more important than many people’s lives and the suffering of many others. Anyone who wants to argue in favor of the continued existence of this system should have all of this hung around their necks.

fennecfoxen 7y ago

> ... and most people aren't talking about it. Have you looked at a newspaper since, say, 2007 or so? You will find that many have politics sections which have spent an awful lot of time covering the matter. Other news sources frequently cover it as well.

cafebabbe 7y ago

It's rather painful to watch from this side of the Atlantic. I guess that I need to acknowledge this is really what most people want in America.

cschep 7y ago
It isn't what "most" people want. It's what the rich people in power want.

Someone1234 7y ago

I just want to tack on: People being forced to skip simple preventative medicine, potentially building up a ticking time bomb when those conditions become more expensive to treat.

MuffinFlavored 7y ago

> An entire generation is draining their savings to keep up with premium costs. Knock on wood but, myself and pretty much everybody I know has insurance covered ~75% through our full time employers. I think my portion of my insurance is about... $100/mo? I've never had to use it way/shape/form in the past... 5-10 years. Isn't the truth that the most unhealthy people are what drives health care costs? It'd be interesting to see a visual of who uses their insurance and how much of it they use. Let's not forget that lack of exercise, obesity, and heart disease are rampant in America.

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
It seems to be more the exception, rather than the rule, that you will continue to be fine without medical coverage for eternity. One day, something is going to happen. Consumption of health care tends to be back-loaded in life.
geddy 7y ago
Yeah, I really wonder where that $10,000/person figure comes from when you remove obesity and smoking related illnesses, so, the two highest and most preventable causes of death in this country. I always believed you should be able to qualify for lower costs (or be charged higher) depending on how you take care of yourself. Annual physical fitness test. I'm a little sick and tired of paying high premiums for people to have healthcare that don't take care of themselves.
- geggam 7y ago
  Many of us who won the genetic lottery are sick of paying for those who didn't Where do you draw this line ? If someone cannot afford to eat or live a healthy lifestyle do you kick them while they are down ?
  - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    The brotherhood of "we can all band together to pay for each other" falls apart when the line to McDonald's is wrapped around the corner in my eyes. If you take in over 3,500 calories a day of pizza, soda, cheeseburgers, or candy then follow it up with little to no exercise/movement, you are contributing to the "health insurance crisis".
- throwaway22424 7y ago
  > I always believed you should be able to qualify for lower costs (or be charged higher) depending on how you take care of yourself. Annual physical fitness test. I'm a little sick and tired of paying high premiums for people to have healthcare that don't take care of themselves. Better hope you never get in a car accident or similar accident or get diagnosed with cancer or a chronic condition. Congratulations for being in perfect health and not needing any sort of medical care. There are plenty of people who don't smoke and aren't obese and can still be bankrupt by standard medical treatments. I would bet money (let's say the value of my annual insurance premiums) that if the two of us took a physical fitness test or compared overall "health" in areas that are more controllable (weigh, cholesterol, body fat percentage, amount of exercise, and other indicators like smoking/drug/alcohol use), I would be considered healthier than you. But I have an endocrine condition that requires very expensive medication and annual tests that cost a lot of money. You're selfish, and that's fine. But the second you ever actually need health care, I hope you remember how quickly you dismiss "people who don't take care of themselves."

JamesSchriver 7y ago

I realize the avg YC visitor will not want to hear this, but when you are taking care of 1) literally tens of millions of foreign nationals that have washed up on America's shored with all manner of maladies and even diseases that never existed in the USA before, and others that have been eradicated for decades, and all those people bring in multiples of their family members with all manner of other maladies and are of elderly age, who then immediately go on medicare and social security. And illegals the emergency rooms for any and all maladies since all of them are of course criminals (regardless of whether you want to split legal hairs, they are still violators or both the rule of law and committing major offenses against the society and people they are parasitizing). 2) The population is full of clusters of immensely unhealthy populations like blacks that are wildly disproportionately affected by specific diseases like sickle cell and kidney diseases and also lead wildly disproportionately unhealthy lifestyles with obesity rates off the chart all around the south in particular. 3) Our corporation captured government is utterly corrupt and politicians and the health sector is too busy lining each others's pockets to actually provide any real leadership of the country neither have any loyalty to anymore and are just trying to get rich off faster than the next guy before the music stops. Just look at the stocks of health industry companies before and after "Obamacare" passed that was a massive last minute bait and switch pork barrel profit maker for the health industry, while essentially plundering hard working Americans to pay for the healthcare of millions of foreigners that have been imported into the USA against the enslaved American population's will … because having the product of your work taken from you to support the life and lifestyle of others against your will and under threat of violence and ruin is nothing but slavery. So here wer are, paying twice as much for half the health care we got just 10 years ago when it was said it was bad, but at least millions of foreign nationals are taken care of at the American tax slave's cost.

seppin 7y ago
Hi. Do you have any sources for any of this? Otherwise it sounds like quite the racist rant against anything foreign
dang 7y ago
We've banned this account for repeatedly posting flamewar comments to HN and ignoring our requests to stop. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

throwaway22424 7y ago

> Not to mention the millions of people locked into careers they would otherwise get out of, if not for the health coverage. Replying with a throwaway for obvious reasons. I work at one of the big tech companies -- I'm paid well, but the benefits are very good. I just got an offer from a startup that I really like. It's a job I would like to take. I'm going to have to turn down the offer. Part of the reason I'm going to have to turn it down is that even though it offers insurance, its coverage isn't as good as what I have and the subsidy offered will add $15k a year minimum to my health care expenses. My partner needs surgery (an expensive surgery), and I'm the primary bread-winner (for now) -- I have to make pragmatic decisions because of stuff like healthcare, even at the expense of my own aspirations. And to be clear, my scenario is significantly better than so many others who are stuck in truly terrible places (where I work is not terrible by a longshot) or in careers they would like to change, because the truth is, health care in the US is a joke.

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
Sounds like this could be solved, if the startup could offer a higher base salary, bonus, or a combination.
- charwalker 7y ago
  Yes, but that isn't the root cause is it? Even if the current employer is big enough to negotiate lower prices or deals for its coverage and that's a barrier to entry for the startup, both companies could be set one a level field in a universal healthcare system removing this cost center from both companies. Even if the cost is (partially) rolled into something like payroll or income taxes, it would still impact the big company and the startup much more equitably. Barriers to entry are one item this site and many of its users and are fighting to better disrupt industries and create value. If you can't get talent because you can't provide healthcare and a solution for that exists in most developed nations (universal care), why are we not engaging that?
  - hardtke 7y ago
    Large employers are self insured. The insurance companies just manage the benefits. In that sense there is no negotiation, beyond a manager fee. Price is determined by health of employees and benefit level.

claudeganon 7y ago

It’s also an absolute moral disgrace that we’ve decide the profits of insurance industry and other for profit entities are more important than many people’s lives and the suffering of many others. Anyone who wants to argue in favor of the continued existence of this system should have all of this hung around their necks.