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But the individual policies on the exchange have increased year over year as well, and a lot of those insurers on the exchange went out of business/disappeared

But the individual policies on the exchange have increased year over year as well, and a lot of those insurers on the exchange went out of business/disappeared after 2-3 years anyway. (from 2017-2018 for example insurance on the exchange increased 32% for silver plans and 20% for Gold plans)

tempsy 7y ago
I don't understand what that has to do my comment. I never mentioned anything about the exchanges. Health insurance policies generally get more expensive year over year for everyone, whether an employer is paying for it or you as an individual.
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  You seem to be highlighting employer provided insurance costs increase (which they do), but historically they increase at a lower rate than individual plans (i.e. the alternative).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
lotsofpulp 7y ago
What does that have to do with what tempsy wrote?
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  The articles is about employer health plans getting more expensive, the comment was about employer health plans getting more expensive...whats the alternative to an employer provided health plan? An individual private plan, I thought it seemed relevant those are increasing in cost too (at a much higher rate).
  - triceratops 7y ago
    > whats the alternative to an employer provided health plan? There are a number of alternatives: 1. Government health plan at the state level (i.e. the Canada model) 2. Compulsory private insurance (i.e. the Switzerland model). But employers don't provide it and insurers have to insure everyone who pays. Single, larger, and more diverse risk pool instead of 3 separate pools - one with working age people and children, one with old people, one with everyone else 3. Government-owned and -operated hospitals and clinics, free at the point of use (i.e. the UK model) 4. Government health plan at the federal level (i.e. the France model) All four have been found to cost less per patient for similar or better outcomes.
    - throwaway_law 7y ago
      Yes, it would be great if US employees had those options, but they don't hence they aren't alternatives. The main alternative in the US to an employer based group insurance policy is an individual plan. One day the US may catch up to the rest of the world, but unfortunately, the US seems content with millions of uninsured, healthcare related bankruptcies, and milking those who can afford coverage more every year in exchange for less.
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Doesn’t the fact that vastly different systems perform better than the US possibly suggest that our problem is something other than the payor model? What is the theoretical reason why US costs would be higher than Switzerland? Premiums for private insurance should be much lower in the US, given that Medicare takes high cost people out of the private pool.
      - triceratops 7y ago
        The US hasn't had compulsory private insurance up until about 10 years ago. Before that costs were going up even faster[1]. Even then if your employer is providing your health plan the amount of "shopping around" you can do is limited - most companies have 2 or 3 options (a PPO, an HMO and something with an HSA). This leaves only the uninsured (i.e. the poor) or previously uninsurable (pre-existing conditions) in the actual open private insurance marketplace. It's not surprising that premiums there will be crazy high and it's not really that close to being the Swiss model. > our problem is something other than the payor model I partially agree with that - the payer model is one facet among many. There are other problems with healthcare in the US. Hospitals can veto opening of competing hospitals in the area, complex billing, not enough residency spots leading to a shortage of doctors, whatever the F is happening with prescription drugs etc. GP was only asking for alternatives to employer healthcare though. 1. https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878 https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs...

tempsy 7y ago

I don't understand what that has to do my comment. I never mentioned anything about the exchanges. Health insurance policies generally get more expensive year over year for everyone, whether an employer is paying for it or you as an individual.

throwaway_law 7y ago
You seem to be highlighting employer provided insurance costs increase (which they do), but historically they increase at a lower rate than individual plans (i.e. the alternative).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

lotsofpulp 7y ago

What does that have to do with what tempsy wrote?

throwaway_law 7y ago
The articles is about employer health plans getting more expensive, the comment was about employer health plans getting more expensive...whats the alternative to an employer provided health plan? An individual private plan, I thought it seemed relevant those are increasing in cost too (at a much higher rate).
- triceratops 7y ago
  > whats the alternative to an employer provided health plan? There are a number of alternatives: 1. Government health plan at the state level (i.e. the Canada model) 2. Compulsory private insurance (i.e. the Switzerland model). But employers don't provide it and insurers have to insure everyone who pays. Single, larger, and more diverse risk pool instead of 3 separate pools - one with working age people and children, one with old people, one with everyone else 3. Government-owned and -operated hospitals and clinics, free at the point of use (i.e. the UK model) 4. Government health plan at the federal level (i.e. the France model) All four have been found to cost less per patient for similar or better outcomes.
  - throwaway_law 7y ago
    Yes, it would be great if US employees had those options, but they don't hence they aren't alternatives. The main alternative in the US to an employer based group insurance policy is an individual plan. One day the US may catch up to the rest of the world, but unfortunately, the US seems content with millions of uninsured, healthcare related bankruptcies, and milking those who can afford coverage more every year in exchange for less.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Doesn’t the fact that vastly different systems perform better than the US possibly suggest that our problem is something other than the payor model? What is the theoretical reason why US costs would be higher than Switzerland? Premiums for private insurance should be much lower in the US, given that Medicare takes high cost people out of the private pool.
    - triceratops 7y ago
      The US hasn't had compulsory private insurance up until about 10 years ago. Before that costs were going up even faster[1]. Even then if your employer is providing your health plan the amount of "shopping around" you can do is limited - most companies have 2 or 3 options (a PPO, an HMO and something with an HSA). This leaves only the uninsured (i.e. the poor) or previously uninsurable (pre-existing conditions) in the actual open private insurance marketplace. It's not surprising that premiums there will be crazy high and it's not really that close to being the Swiss model. > our problem is something other than the payor model I partially agree with that - the payer model is one facet among many. There are other problems with healthcare in the US. Hospitals can veto opening of competing hospitals in the area, complex billing, not enough residency spots leading to a shortage of doctors, whatever the F is happening with prescription drugs etc. GP was only asking for alternatives to employer healthcare though. 1. https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs-4064878 https://www.thebalance.com/causes-of-rising-healthcare-costs...