5 ms·

I often hear the claim that it's more expensive to ship within the US than from China but rarely see it backed up. I've yet to see anyone give a specific size b

by ikeboy 7y ago

I often hear the claim that it's more expensive to ship within the US than from China but rarely see it backed up. I've yet to see anyone give a specific size box, weight, and locations for comparison, and the few times they have I find the US shipping rate is cheaper.

mcphage 7y ago
Have you ever... like, tried to buy something off the internet before?
- ikeboy 7y ago
  Quite often. But I've also read every report the USPSOIG released about ePacket, including the last two showing it's profitable (i.e. no subsidies), along with reading the price charts published by the USPS.
  - ineedasername 7y ago
    And you've never come across items on Ebay/Amazon for ~$3 with free shipping from China? There's tons. They sell items for less than item cost + shipping than my shipping alone costs.
    - ikeboy 7y ago
      I'm sure that's true, but that's because you're a low volume seller and can't get the same rates that China Post can get shipping hundreds of millions of packages. (And because you don't do the research to ship through the programs that do allow smaller volume sellers, such as flats.) Your example in the other comment was 4 oz. The commercial rate for pre-sorted flats is $1.249. There's even lower rates if you can do higher levels of sorting and injection, cheapest is $0.936. See https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c104 https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c104 "First-Class Mail Commercial Flats (Large Envelopes)"
      - ineedasername 7y ago
        I don't think you actually looked at the requirements for a "flat" or you wouldn't use it as an example. It's not an arbitrary package of a given weight. It has to be FLAT. It has very specific size requirements, must have a minimum of 1/4 inch thickness and maximum 3/4 inch, and that thickness has to be uniform across dimensions: it cannot vary by more than 1/4 inch. And even then it has strict rigidity requirements: It cannot deflect more than 2 inches over a set distance from the edge of a counter. If any of these conditions are not met then you pay the standard "commercial plus" package rate, whether you ship 10 package a month or 10,000. I have inquired both directly with USPS and with a shipping logistics consultant: there is no amount that gets you a better price than the general prices I'm quoting unless you have your own logistics network that delivers directly to regional USPS distribution hubs for "last mile" delivery, and then you're not really using just the USPS are you? You're building out your own shipping network as well. And even then you're wrong: Paying any amount for shipping of items, even if the items cost the same amount as the Chinese version it's still more expensive. It doesn't matter if the shipping cost is $10 or $3.50 or $1: It's still more expensive.
        ikeboy 7y ago
        I've shipped hundreds of thousands of flats, I'm quite familiar with the requirements. Looking at the product you linked it seems small enough that it could be stuffed into a flat envelope and shipped. >And even then you're wrong: Paying any amount for shipping of items, even if the items cost the same amount as the Chinese version it's still more expensive. It doesn't matter if the shipping cost is $10 or $3.50 or $1: It's still more expensive. Care to elaborate? If your cost was the same as the Chinese and your shipping cost the same as well then your overall cost would be the same. What are you trying to say here?
        ineedasername 7y ago
        So you know the requirements and persist in presenting it as a package shipping option? When any item thicker than 0.75" wouldn't apply and thus invalidates this as an option for the vast majority of package shippers? And you ignore that point that even at the high volume flats rate, it's still more expensive. Maybe your needs are an edge case, I don't know. But you asked for examples where shipping within the US is more expensive, and you have those examples in spades. Once given, you want to move the goal posts, and can't even move them to where you're actually right. You're being deliberately obtuse and intellectually dishonest. I'm done trying to have a conversation.
  - mherdeg 7y ago
    Hmm. A friend took a $20 budget to Aliexpress and bought us everything matching the keyword "panda" priced under $1 with free shipping. Small packages, generally about 6" x 6" and weighing under 4oz, trickled in over the following few months. They came from China, Estonia, and Slovenia. We got one really nice panda hand puppet, several charming small stuffed animals, a bunch of bookmarks, and some magnets. Now that you mention it, it would be interesting to try the experiment again and see what is the cheapest price I could get to remail each package back to my friend elsewhere in the US.
    - ikeboy 7y ago
      The ones under $1 aren't sent with ePacket, but under a different program that doesn't have tracking. Do any of the items fit in a regular envelope? Is it possible to ship for the price of a stamp? If not, most likely you can ship with flats for $1-1.50 range.
ineedasername 7y ago
It's not hard to come buy examples. It costs me about $3 to ship a 4 oz package using USPS within the US. You can find items that cheap with free shipping from China on Ebay. Here's an example of one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-10oz-Hip-Flask-Stainless-Steel-Silver-Pocket-Drink-Whisky-Vodka-Flasks-Funnel/383126183710?hash=item5934199f1e:m:me52d9NHRQmpWiEAQrZWCiQ https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-10oz-Hip-Flask-Stainless-Steel-Si... (it's the sort of thing I personalize & sell myself, need to charge more than that for material costs + profit, and ship as well)
semi-extrinsic 7y ago
Here's an example off eBay for an item that measures 6"x4"x2", is fragile so has to be packaged well, and costs $2 with free shipping. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acrylic-Transparent-Photo-Frame-6in-L-Shape-Photo-Picture-Frame-Home-Decor-DIY-S-/283304776438 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acrylic-Transparent-Photo-Frame-6in...
- ikeboy 7y ago
  "This item does not ship to United States"
  - dhosek 7y ago
    Perhaps a victim of Trump's trade war?
justhw 7y ago
You can buy plenty of stuff from DH Gate or AliExpress with free shipping which usually takes ~20 days.
thedogeye 7y ago
If interested in finding examples first hand look into e-packet from ChinaPost, that’s the new name of the service that lets you ship parcels from China to the US for a couple of bucks.
- ikeboy 7y ago
  ePacket is more expensive than UPU rates.

by ikeboy 7y ago

mcphage 7y ago

Have you ever... like, tried to buy something off the internet before?

ikeboy 7y ago
Quite often. But I've also read every report the USPSOIG released about ePacket, including the last two showing it's profitable (i.e. no subsidies), along with reading the price charts published by the USPS.
- ineedasername 7y ago
  And you've never come across items on Ebay/Amazon for ~$3 with free shipping from China? There's tons. They sell items for less than item cost + shipping than my shipping alone costs.
  - ikeboy 7y ago
    I'm sure that's true, but that's because you're a low volume seller and can't get the same rates that China Post can get shipping hundreds of millions of packages. (And because you don't do the research to ship through the programs that do allow smaller volume sellers, such as flats.) Your example in the other comment was 4 oz. The commercial rate for pre-sorted flats is $1.249. There's even lower rates if you can do higher levels of sorting and injection, cheapest is $0.936. See https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c104 https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c104 "First-Class Mail Commercial Flats (Large Envelopes)"
    - ineedasername 7y ago
      I don't think you actually looked at the requirements for a "flat" or you wouldn't use it as an example. It's not an arbitrary package of a given weight. It has to be FLAT. It has very specific size requirements, must have a minimum of 1/4 inch thickness and maximum 3/4 inch, and that thickness has to be uniform across dimensions: it cannot vary by more than 1/4 inch. And even then it has strict rigidity requirements: It cannot deflect more than 2 inches over a set distance from the edge of a counter. If any of these conditions are not met then you pay the standard "commercial plus" package rate, whether you ship 10 package a month or 10,000. I have inquired both directly with USPS and with a shipping logistics consultant: there is no amount that gets you a better price than the general prices I'm quoting unless you have your own logistics network that delivers directly to regional USPS distribution hubs for "last mile" delivery, and then you're not really using just the USPS are you? You're building out your own shipping network as well. And even then you're wrong: Paying any amount for shipping of items, even if the items cost the same amount as the Chinese version it's still more expensive. It doesn't matter if the shipping cost is $10 or $3.50 or $1: It's still more expensive.
      - ikeboy 7y ago
        I've shipped hundreds of thousands of flats, I'm quite familiar with the requirements. Looking at the product you linked it seems small enough that it could be stuffed into a flat envelope and shipped. >And even then you're wrong: Paying any amount for shipping of items, even if the items cost the same amount as the Chinese version it's still more expensive. It doesn't matter if the shipping cost is $10 or $3.50 or $1: It's still more expensive. Care to elaborate? If your cost was the same as the Chinese and your shipping cost the same as well then your overall cost would be the same. What are you trying to say here?
        ineedasername 7y ago
        So you know the requirements and persist in presenting it as a package shipping option? When any item thicker than 0.75" wouldn't apply and thus invalidates this as an option for the vast majority of package shippers? And you ignore that point that even at the high volume flats rate, it's still more expensive. Maybe your needs are an edge case, I don't know. But you asked for examples where shipping within the US is more expensive, and you have those examples in spades. Once given, you want to move the goal posts, and can't even move them to where you're actually right. You're being deliberately obtuse and intellectually dishonest. I'm done trying to have a conversation.
- mherdeg 7y ago
  Hmm. A friend took a $20 budget to Aliexpress and bought us everything matching the keyword "panda" priced under $1 with free shipping. Small packages, generally about 6" x 6" and weighing under 4oz, trickled in over the following few months. They came from China, Estonia, and Slovenia. We got one really nice panda hand puppet, several charming small stuffed animals, a bunch of bookmarks, and some magnets. Now that you mention it, it would be interesting to try the experiment again and see what is the cheapest price I could get to remail each package back to my friend elsewhere in the US.
  - ikeboy 7y ago
    The ones under $1 aren't sent with ePacket, but under a different program that doesn't have tracking. Do any of the items fit in a regular envelope? Is it possible to ship for the price of a stamp? If not, most likely you can ship with flats for $1-1.50 range.

ineedasername 7y ago

It's not hard to come buy examples. It costs me about $3 to ship a 4 oz package using USPS within the US. You can find items that cheap with free shipping from China on Ebay. Here's an example of one: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-10oz-Hip-Flask-Stainless-Steel-Silver-Pocket-Drink-Whisky-Vodka-Flasks-Funnel/383126183710?hash=item5934199f1e:m:me52d9NHRQmpWiEAQrZWCiQ https://www.ebay.com/itm/1-10oz-Hip-Flask-Stainless-Steel-Si... (it's the sort of thing I personalize & sell myself, need to charge more than that for material costs + profit, and ship as well)

semi-extrinsic 7y ago

Here's an example off eBay for an item that measures 6"x4"x2", is fragile so has to be packaged well, and costs $2 with free shipping. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acrylic-Transparent-Photo-Frame-6in-L-Shape-Photo-Picture-Frame-Home-Decor-DIY-S-/283304776438 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Acrylic-Transparent-Photo-Frame-6in...

ikeboy 7y ago
"This item does not ship to United States"
- dhosek 7y ago
  Perhaps a victim of Trump's trade war?

justhw 7y ago

You can buy plenty of stuff from DH Gate or AliExpress with free shipping which usually takes ~20 days.

thedogeye 7y ago

If interested in finding examples first hand look into e-packet from ChinaPost, that’s the new name of the service that lets you ship parcels from China to the US for a couple of bucks.

ikeboy 7y ago
ePacket is more expensive than UPU rates.