4 ms·

Arctic sea ice reaches second lowest minimum in satellite record

33 points by jesperlang 7y ago

xwdv 7y ago
Looks like there’s little to nothing we can do to stop the effects of climate change these days. Might as well just give up and accept the inevitable, a lot less stressful that way.
- atonse 7y ago
  Heh I had a similar thought but then we forget that it'll get worse and accelerate if we do nothing. So there is hope of not making things much worse.
  - xwdv 7y ago
    The geoengineering technology simply isn’t here. There’s no strong capitalist incentives for such tech to emerge or be developed. There’s no way we can eliminate the use of fossil fuels in the next ten years. There’s no way we can change consumer diets to rely less on methane producing animals. There’s nothing we can do to stop the acidification of oceans and the collapse of aquaculture. And when the permafrost melts and releases methane exponentially into the atmosphere it’s game over. Unless we have a way to siphon out gases from the atmosphere, we’re finished.
    - omar_a1 7y ago
      We can fund the God damn research, for one. Of course, for that we'd need a functional government.
      - derg 7y ago
        Absolutely. Sure it may not be entirely possible, but we need to _try_. Nothing short of a total war mobilization of the economy and research will even remotely get close to preventing the absolute worst aspects, but it may be possible to salvage parts of the planet.
    - bryanlarsen 7y ago
      > Unless we have a way to siphon out gases from the atmosphere, we’re finished. It's called carbon sequestration and it costs $100 - $300 per ton. So for a few $trillion, we could get net zero. Expensive, but comparable to the Iraq war or Apollo program in costs. A lot cheaper than WWII. Another way of thinking about it is that it would approximately double the price of gas.
      - omar_a1 7y ago
        This is assuming we act before any of the global homeostasis mechanisms break due to the CO2 levels (jet stream, thermohaline cycle, methane clatharates, etc. etc.), in which case it'll take far more money (and research).
- primroot 7y ago
  There may be nothing we can do to stop it, but there are measures society needs to take to not worsen the problem.
- Lutzb 7y ago
  As much as I want to disagree with you, I too have this bleak feeling of inevitable doom. As individuals there is nothing we can do, all the personal changes are dwarfed by the overwhelming magnitude of the problems ahead. In my younger years I would have thought that while the problems seem insurmountable, we as global society will find a solution. The older I get I am convinced that there is almost no political solution that won't be opposed by either big money or irrational nationalism blocking any kind of global solution. sigh
  - taborj 7y ago
    I would posit that at least some of your feelings are due to the nature of information dissemination by today's highly connected, revenue-driven media. Saying everything is fine, or at least not terrible, has never brought as many eyeballs to a story as claiming the sky is falling. Not saying the sky is or isn't falling, just that we have so much ready access to so many sources of information, each with a vested interest in getting you to come view their content - and what better way than highlighting the doom and gloom? - that there is the real situation of bad news overload. That, in turn, makes things seem worse than they are. It's no wonder the suicide rates are increasing.
- danieldk 7y ago
  I often feel hopeless as well and feel that there is a chance that things well even be worse than the IPCC projections due to unforseen tipping points, to the point where large parts of the world will be uninhabitable to humans (which brings war over land, resources, etc.). It seems that the (short-term focused) political and (growth focused) economical systems are not capable with deal dealing with climate change. Moreover, most people do not fully grasp the potential catastrophic effects yet. Even a lot of people that I know who believe human-induced climate change is a major problem step in an airplane for holiday twice a year. However, we should oppose the mindset of giving up. I have a 5/yo daughter and it is simply unfair to her and her generation if we didn't at least try to dampen the effects of climate change as much as we can.
- scarygliders 7y ago
  That's because the climate changes _despite_ humans, not _because_ of humans.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  Hahah. Someone's up past bedtime. Take a nap. You'll feel more optimistic. We will all still be here trying to save humanity when you've gotten the rest you need.
ent101 7y ago
In a few words how can I convert a climate-change denier to a believer? and vice versa... I just want see what the short, compelling arguments of either side are.
- ryanwaggoner 7y ago
  "What evidence would you need to see to be convinced that climate change is indeed happening and is a threat to humanity?"
  - scarygliders 7y ago
    "What proof do you have that humans are _causing_ the climate to change, a climate which has been changing ever since the formation of the Earth 4.5 billion years ago? And what proof do you have that homo sapiens - who have only been on this planet for roughly 200 thousand years, of which have only been embarking in Industry for around 200 of those - can have any effect whatsoever in somehow stopping the climate from changing? Lastly, what definitive proof is there that the trace gas CO2, comprising of 0.04% of the Earth's atmosphere - of which humans are respnsible for a mere 0.01% of that - is the primary temperature control knob of this planet?" The CO2/CAGW/Climate Change alarmism Emperor has no clothes!
    - sxcurry 7y ago
      It will be interesting to see how statements like this are viewed in another 30 or 40 years. I suppose most deniers will deny ever having denied, but hopefully there will be clear historical records to set things straight.
      - scarygliders 7y ago
        Yep. You went ahead and used the "denier" slur. That says a lot more about you than it does about me.
    - scarygliders 7y ago
      All the rank cowards downvoting it. Go ahead. You KNOW deep down that you've either been gullible and taken in by the alarmism, or you're complicit in the agenda which is utilising existential fear - like all tyranny-supporting agendas do.
jesperlang 7y ago
What's even more worrying is that almost all "old" ice is gone. Extent only measures ocean area with at least 15% ice. https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4750 https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4750 Scary times ahead!
tectonic 7y ago
Why was this flagged?
HocusLocus 7y ago
A platform for Earth defense from asteroids ranks higher on my list. You couldn't believe what that would do to the environment.

33 points by jesperlang 7y ago

xwdv 7y ago

Looks like there’s little to nothing we can do to stop the effects of climate change these days. Might as well just give up and accept the inevitable, a lot less stressful that way.

atonse 7y ago
Heh I had a similar thought but then we forget that it'll get worse and accelerate if we do nothing. So there is hope of not making things much worse.
- xwdv 7y ago
  The geoengineering technology simply isn’t here. There’s no strong capitalist incentives for such tech to emerge or be developed. There’s no way we can eliminate the use of fossil fuels in the next ten years. There’s no way we can change consumer diets to rely less on methane producing animals. There’s nothing we can do to stop the acidification of oceans and the collapse of aquaculture. And when the permafrost melts and releases methane exponentially into the atmosphere it’s game over. Unless we have a way to siphon out gases from the atmosphere, we’re finished.
  - omar_a1 7y ago
    We can fund the God damn research, for one. Of course, for that we'd need a functional government.
    - derg 7y ago
      Absolutely. Sure it may not be entirely possible, but we need to _try_. Nothing short of a total war mobilization of the economy and research will even remotely get close to preventing the absolute worst aspects, but it may be possible to salvage parts of the planet.
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    > Unless we have a way to siphon out gases from the atmosphere, we’re finished. It's called carbon sequestration and it costs $100 - $300 per ton. So for a few $trillion, we could get net zero. Expensive, but comparable to the Iraq war or Apollo program in costs. A lot cheaper than WWII. Another way of thinking about it is that it would approximately double the price of gas.
    - omar_a1 7y ago
      This is assuming we act before any of the global homeostasis mechanisms break due to the CO2 levels (jet stream, thermohaline cycle, methane clatharates, etc. etc.), in which case it'll take far more money (and research).
primroot 7y ago
There may be nothing we can do to stop it, but there are measures society needs to take to not worsen the problem.
Lutzb 7y ago
As much as I want to disagree with you, I too have this bleak feeling of inevitable doom. As individuals there is nothing we can do, all the personal changes are dwarfed by the overwhelming magnitude of the problems ahead. In my younger years I would have thought that while the problems seem insurmountable, we as global society will find a solution. The older I get I am convinced that there is almost no political solution that won't be opposed by either big money or irrational nationalism blocking any kind of global solution. sigh
- taborj 7y ago
  I would posit that at least some of your feelings are due to the nature of information dissemination by today's highly connected, revenue-driven media. Saying everything is fine, or at least not terrible, has never brought as many eyeballs to a story as claiming the sky is falling. Not saying the sky is or isn't falling, just that we have so much ready access to so many sources of information, each with a vested interest in getting you to come view their content - and what better way than highlighting the doom and gloom? - that there is the real situation of bad news overload. That, in turn, makes things seem worse than they are. It's no wonder the suicide rates are increasing.
danieldk 7y ago
I often feel hopeless as well and feel that there is a chance that things well even be worse than the IPCC projections due to unforseen tipping points, to the point where large parts of the world will be uninhabitable to humans (which brings war over land, resources, etc.). It seems that the (short-term focused) political and (growth focused) economical systems are not capable with deal dealing with climate change. Moreover, most people do not fully grasp the potential catastrophic effects yet. Even a lot of people that I know who believe human-induced climate change is a major problem step in an airplane for holiday twice a year. However, we should oppose the mindset of giving up. I have a 5/yo daughter and it is simply unfair to her and her generation if we didn't at least try to dampen the effects of climate change as much as we can.
scarygliders 7y ago
That's because the climate changes _despite_ humans, not _because_ of humans.
jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
Hahah. Someone's up past bedtime. Take a nap. You'll feel more optimistic. We will all still be here trying to save humanity when you've gotten the rest you need.

ent101 7y ago

In a few words how can I convert a climate-change denier to a believer? and vice versa... I just want see what the short, compelling arguments of either side are.

ryanwaggoner 7y ago
"What evidence would you need to see to be convinced that climate change is indeed happening and is a threat to humanity?"
- scarygliders 7y ago
  "What proof do you have that humans are _causing_ the climate to change, a climate which has been changing ever since the formation of the Earth 4.5 billion years ago? And what proof do you have that homo sapiens - who have only been on this planet for roughly 200 thousand years, of which have only been embarking in Industry for around 200 of those - can have any effect whatsoever in somehow stopping the climate from changing? Lastly, what definitive proof is there that the trace gas CO2, comprising of 0.04% of the Earth's atmosphere - of which humans are respnsible for a mere 0.01% of that - is the primary temperature control knob of this planet?" The CO2/CAGW/Climate Change alarmism Emperor has no clothes!
  - sxcurry 7y ago
    It will be interesting to see how statements like this are viewed in another 30 or 40 years. I suppose most deniers will deny ever having denied, but hopefully there will be clear historical records to set things straight.
    - scarygliders 7y ago
      Yep. You went ahead and used the "denier" slur. That says a lot more about you than it does about me.
  - scarygliders 7y ago
    All the rank cowards downvoting it. Go ahead. You KNOW deep down that you've either been gullible and taken in by the alarmism, or you're complicit in the agenda which is utilising existential fear - like all tyranny-supporting agendas do.

jesperlang 7y ago

What's even more worrying is that almost all "old" ice is gone. Extent only measures ocean area with at least 15% ice. https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4750 https://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/4750 Scary times ahead!

tectonic 7y ago

Why was this flagged?

HocusLocus 7y ago

A platform for Earth defense from asteroids ranks higher on my list. You couldn't believe what that would do to the environment.