7 ms·

For comparison, here are a few of the highest rates per 100k in the US: 98.7 - Kusilvak Census Area, AK; 75.1 - Nome Census Area, AK; 64.2 - Sioux County,

by kevadk 7y ago

For comparison, here are a few of the highest rates per 100k in the US: 98.7 - Kusilvak Census Area, AK; 75.1 - Nome Census Area, AK; 64.2 - Sioux County, ND; 58.9 - Buffalo County, SD; 49.3 - Carbon County, UT https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa Extend the list and you see lots of high latitudes, low incomes, remote rural settings, and indigenous American populations (e.g. Yupik and Inupiaq in Alaska, Sioux in the Dakotas). Alcoholism is often common in these places, although survey data do not show it affecting the groups in northern Alaska so heavily. Deaths due to chronic liver disease are not particularly high for them, either. There's a distinct history in Nunavut, though, so the story might be different.

DanielBMarkham 7y ago
Great link. This is the interactive graphic that should have appeared with the article. Instead of a single narrative, users can explore various scenarios as they read along. Looking at this strictly from a geographic standpoint, for instance, there's something weird going on in North Dakota between Carson County and Sioux County. It really stands out on the map. Alaska also looks quite odd.
- leesec 7y ago
  "something weird" being the native american population, who have been getting trampled on by Americans for hundreds of years now.
  - chrshawkes 7y ago
    Not sure why this is being downvoted? Clearly these people have no idea about the Plains Wars, Custer's Last Stand and Wounded Knee. They have absolutely been trampled on and worse (murdered).
    - whatshisface 7y ago
      Wounded Knee happened 130 years ago, so in order to explain today's problems with it you would have to know the rate at which historical impacts decayed through time.
    - mitchty 7y ago
      Its being downvoted because its childish simplistic view of things. I grew up in Grant county, literally west of Sioux county. There are a lot of reasons for the high suicide rate in Sioux county, historical facts like Custer aside, unless you've lived in this part of the country, you really have no idea what its like there. Did westerners do a number on the Nakota/Dakota/Lakota/Sioux/Mandan/etc..? Duh, but thats not really why kids are killing themselves today. Hell even in the surrounding counties suicide is pretty common for the same reasons as in the reservation. There is no opportunity, and depression is pretty common. Side note, I have family in Sioux county as well. I'll be blunt and say, if you've only grew up on the coasts, kindly butt the fuck out of why the suicide is high. I could name 10 people in and out of Sioux county I know that ate a bullet, if all you're going to do is use this for internet points piss off.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - chrshawkes 7y ago
        I'm going to hold my tongue but I'd love to hear you say that to my face. You are not the only one affected by suicide, I don't care if you live in bumfuck or the East Coast. You know nothing about how suicide has impacted me personally. I'm making an observation about historical events which have led to the lack of opportunity.
        whenchamenia 7y ago
        This is not the right way to go about it. His point is sound, no matter your personal experinces. The midwest is a distinct culture alien to the majority of americans. I routinely see the issues we face minimized, and suicide is where i draw the fucking line.
        dang 7y ago
        I'm sure you also have good reason to feel personally intense about this topic. But please follow the site guidelines when posting here, especially on topics where feelings are understandably strong. Note the first one listed under "Comments": Be kind. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - _-david-_ 7y ago
    It wouldn't explain why places that haven't been trampled on by Americans would have high suicide rates. South Korea and Japan both have pretty high suicide rates for example. Also, a large chunk of the suicides are young people who didn't leave through the eras where oppression occurred. I am not sure why somebody would commit suicide because something happened to their ancestors.
    - leesec 7y ago
      >It wouldn't explain why places that haven't been trampled on by Americans would have high suicide rates. South Korea and Japan both have pretty high suicide rates for example. I wasn't trying to say anything about anywhere else. >Also, a large chunk of the suicides are young people who didn't leave through the eras where oppression occurred. I am not sure why somebody would commit suicide because something happened to their ancestors. Oppression still occurring, thanks.
      - _-david-_ 7y ago
        How is oppression still occurring?
- boomboomsubban 7y ago
  One of the causes in the ND patch is that there is a ton of space with nothing there. The amount of time for any medical care to arrive and then reach a hospital would be extremely high.
- fireattack 7y ago
  How do you show suicide rate in that interactive graphic? By choosing "self-harm" as cause I assume?
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>Extend the list and you see lots of high latitudes, low incomes, remote rural settings, and indigenous American populations Gloomy weather, little opportunity for future economic advancement exacerbated by a government hundreds of miles away made up of people nothing like you making up rules for you that make life harder (rural area generally make money on resource extraction and western government are regulating that more tightly for climate reasons) and it's been this way for generations. This isn't quite shocked pikachu territory but it should come as no surprise people living like this kill themselves more than the baseline.
BurningFrog 7y ago
Alcoholism is always rampant when a population is first introduced to the drug. Over centuries, evolution acts to produce a population less prone to it, since people who drink themselves to death don't tend to reproduce. The population that has had access to alcohol for the longest (8000 years, according to a guess I saw somewhere) is the Chinese, where the "asian red flush" gene has developed as a protection against alcoholism.
- jvanderbot 7y ago
  Well, I'm confused. Something seems off. Evolutionary pressures / adaptations over 8000 years would just as likely make a population less likely to suffer adverse effects from, for example, alcohol. (see sickle cell tradeoffs in malaria-risky areas). This genetic syndrome you reference makes damage from alcohol 4x more likely over time. We'd expect long-time drinking societies to have higher alcohol tolerance to better avoid adverse effects of drinking.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    To me, an adaptation that makes you avoid something damaging is a great way to make a population less likely to suffer adverse effects from it. That said, the surviving populations probably also have a higher alcohol tolerance than their sober ancestors. That seems hard to measure though.
- andyjohnson0 7y ago
  > Over centuries, evolution acts to produce a population less prone to it Is this a supposition? Or is there any evidence for this effect being real and/or it being significant over such evolutionarily short timescales?
  - MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
    Evolution can occur quickly! See e.g. the Peppered Moth.
    - 7y ago
whatshisface 7y ago
You are likely to find the highest suicide rates in less-populated areas because the average of fewer numbers tends to have a greater variance than the average of more numbers. The suicide rate could be the same everywhere and you would still be guaranteed to find the most suicides in rural counties.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  If "small numbers" were the dominant effect, we'd expect to see it move around. This year the highest would be somewhere in the Dakotas, next year in NW Oklahoma, etc. If the rankings are stable over time it must be something else.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
koonsolo 7y ago
From a statistical standpoint, it's logical that the most extreme numbers come from the lowest populations. So if the lowest rates are also in remote rural areas, this says more about statistics than anything else.
- rovolo 7y ago
  I'm not sure which of these two points you're trying to make: 1) These specific counties could be flukes because of their small population. We can account for that by making multiple observations--i.e. look at multiple years of data--and seeing if the counties change rank. The visualization has yearly data for 1980-2014, and the specified counties are consistently high compared to the national average https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa 2) The 'rural' component of these counties isn't necessarily a factor, since the counties with lowest rates may be rural as well. A bit of searching turns up a clear correlation between population density and suicide: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/How-population-density-affects-suicide-rates-in-the-United-States-1989-1998-The-death_fig6_240918084 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/How-population-density-a...
  - koonsolo 7y ago
    I was trying to make point 1, but you definitely showed this is not the case. That last graph is a really nice one, as it shows more variance on low populations, but on average still way higher than on high populations. Thanks for the clarification! :)

by kevadk 7y ago

DanielBMarkham 7y ago

Great link. This is the interactive graphic that should have appeared with the article. Instead of a single narrative, users can explore various scenarios as they read along. Looking at this strictly from a geographic standpoint, for instance, there's something weird going on in North Dakota between Carson County and Sioux County. It really stands out on the map. Alaska also looks quite odd.

leesec 7y ago
"something weird" being the native american population, who have been getting trampled on by Americans for hundreds of years now.
- chrshawkes 7y ago
  Not sure why this is being downvoted? Clearly these people have no idea about the Plains Wars, Custer's Last Stand and Wounded Knee. They have absolutely been trampled on and worse (murdered).
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    Wounded Knee happened 130 years ago, so in order to explain today's problems with it you would have to know the rate at which historical impacts decayed through time.
  - mitchty 7y ago
    Its being downvoted because its childish simplistic view of things. I grew up in Grant county, literally west of Sioux county. There are a lot of reasons for the high suicide rate in Sioux county, historical facts like Custer aside, unless you've lived in this part of the country, you really have no idea what its like there. Did westerners do a number on the Nakota/Dakota/Lakota/Sioux/Mandan/etc..? Duh, but thats not really why kids are killing themselves today. Hell even in the surrounding counties suicide is pretty common for the same reasons as in the reservation. There is no opportunity, and depression is pretty common. Side note, I have family in Sioux county as well. I'll be blunt and say, if you've only grew up on the coasts, kindly butt the fuck out of why the suicide is high. I could name 10 people in and out of Sioux county I know that ate a bullet, if all you're going to do is use this for internet points piss off.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - chrshawkes 7y ago
      I'm going to hold my tongue but I'd love to hear you say that to my face. You are not the only one affected by suicide, I don't care if you live in bumfuck or the East Coast. You know nothing about how suicide has impacted me personally. I'm making an observation about historical events which have led to the lack of opportunity.
      - whenchamenia 7y ago
        This is not the right way to go about it. His point is sound, no matter your personal experinces. The midwest is a distinct culture alien to the majority of americans. I routinely see the issues we face minimized, and suicide is where i draw the fucking line.
      - dang 7y ago
        I'm sure you also have good reason to feel personally intense about this topic. But please follow the site guidelines when posting here, especially on topics where feelings are understandably strong. Note the first one listed under "Comments": Be kind. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- _-david-_ 7y ago
  It wouldn't explain why places that haven't been trampled on by Americans would have high suicide rates. South Korea and Japan both have pretty high suicide rates for example. Also, a large chunk of the suicides are young people who didn't leave through the eras where oppression occurred. I am not sure why somebody would commit suicide because something happened to their ancestors.
  - leesec 7y ago
    >It wouldn't explain why places that haven't been trampled on by Americans would have high suicide rates. South Korea and Japan both have pretty high suicide rates for example. I wasn't trying to say anything about anywhere else. >Also, a large chunk of the suicides are young people who didn't leave through the eras where oppression occurred. I am not sure why somebody would commit suicide because something happened to their ancestors. Oppression still occurring, thanks.
    - _-david-_ 7y ago
      How is oppression still occurring?
boomboomsubban 7y ago
One of the causes in the ND patch is that there is a ton of space with nothing there. The amount of time for any medical care to arrive and then reach a hospital would be extremely high.
fireattack 7y ago
How do you show suicide rate in that interactive graphic? By choosing "self-harm" as cause I assume?

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

>Extend the list and you see lots of high latitudes, low incomes, remote rural settings, and indigenous American populations Gloomy weather, little opportunity for future economic advancement exacerbated by a government hundreds of miles away made up of people nothing like you making up rules for you that make life harder (rural area generally make money on resource extraction and western government are regulating that more tightly for climate reasons) and it's been this way for generations. This isn't quite shocked pikachu territory but it should come as no surprise people living like this kill themselves more than the baseline.

BurningFrog 7y ago

Alcoholism is always rampant when a population is first introduced to the drug. Over centuries, evolution acts to produce a population less prone to it, since people who drink themselves to death don't tend to reproduce. The population that has had access to alcohol for the longest (8000 years, according to a guess I saw somewhere) is the Chinese, where the "asian red flush" gene has developed as a protection against alcoholism.

jvanderbot 7y ago
Well, I'm confused. Something seems off. Evolutionary pressures / adaptations over 8000 years would just as likely make a population less likely to suffer adverse effects from, for example, alcohol. (see sickle cell tradeoffs in malaria-risky areas). This genetic syndrome you reference makes damage from alcohol 4x more likely over time. We'd expect long-time drinking societies to have higher alcohol tolerance to better avoid adverse effects of drinking.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  To me, an adaptation that makes you avoid something damaging is a great way to make a population less likely to suffer adverse effects from it. That said, the surviving populations probably also have a higher alcohol tolerance than their sober ancestors. That seems hard to measure though.
andyjohnson0 7y ago
> Over centuries, evolution acts to produce a population less prone to it Is this a supposition? Or is there any evidence for this effect being real and/or it being significant over such evolutionarily short timescales?
- MrBuddyCasino 7y ago
  Evolution can occur quickly! See e.g. the Peppered Moth.
  - 7y ago

whatshisface 7y ago

You are likely to find the highest suicide rates in less-populated areas because the average of fewer numbers tends to have a greater variance than the average of more numbers. The suicide rate could be the same everywhere and you would still be guaranteed to find the most suicides in rural counties.

jessaustin 7y ago
If "small numbers" were the dominant effect, we'd expect to see it move around. This year the highest would be somewhere in the Dakotas, next year in NW Oklahoma, etc. If the rankings are stable over time it must be something else.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

koonsolo 7y ago

From a statistical standpoint, it's logical that the most extreme numbers come from the lowest populations. So if the lowest rates are also in remote rural areas, this says more about statistics than anything else.

rovolo 7y ago
I'm not sure which of these two points you're trying to make: 1) These specific counties could be flukes because of their small population. We can account for that by making multiple observations--i.e. look at multiple years of data--and seeing if the counties change rank. The visualization has yearly data for 1980-2014, and the specified counties are consistently high compared to the national average https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa https://vizhub.healthdata.org/subnational/usa 2) The 'rural' component of these counties isn't necessarily a factor, since the counties with lowest rates may be rural as well. A bit of searching turns up a clear correlation between population density and suicide: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/How-population-density-affects-suicide-rates-in-the-United-States-1989-1998-The-death_fig6_240918084 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/How-population-density-a...
- koonsolo 7y ago
  I was trying to make point 1, but you definitely showed this is not the case. That last graph is a really nice one, as it shows more variance on low populations, but on average still way higher than on high populations. Thanks for the clarification! :)