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> Just imagine having to apply for a job when the first thing that comes up when googling your name is a news story like that. Around here it's illegal to goog

> Just imagine having to apply for a job when the first thing that comes up when googling your name is a news story like that. Around here it's illegal to google applicants without their consent. Hiring decisions can use only information that the applicant provided. Granted, that's undetectable unless the person doing the hiring messes up and mentions this. I do follow the law myself, don't really know what others are doing. Also not sure how widespread this requirement is even in Europe.

jefftk 7y ago
Where is "Hiring decisions can use only information that the applicant provided" the law? This seems very excessive. For example, if I used to work with you at a different company and know you're really good it's very strange that I wouldn't be allowed to consider that in hiring you.
- jfk13 7y ago
  Surely there at least needs to be some way to seek independent verification (or otherwise) of the information provided by the applicant. We can't be expected to make hiring decisions solely and entirely on people's self-provided information.
  - distances 7y ago
    You can ask for verifications of course. You can get copies of the degrees, access any GitHub account the applicant provides, call to former employers they provided as recommendations. If applicant refuses to do that, well, I suppose you can use that factoid in the hiring decision too. Just ask for permission to google if it's crucial for the process.
    - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
      That seems to be quite the reasonable law then.
- distances 7y ago
  Finland. For the Finnish speakers among us, it's "Laki yksityisyyden suojasta työelämässä". [0] Employers do ask opinions from employees within the company if they've worked together in the past. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure if that's grey area or not. I don't find the law excessive, but I'm quite privacy oriented to start with. [0] https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2004/20040759 https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2004/20040759
  - jefftk 7y ago
    Thanks! I don't read Finnish so I'm reading your link in translation, but I don't see where in the law it says employers can't use outside sources of information in evaluating potential candidates? Could you point me to that section?
    - distances 7y ago
      4§, two first sentences lay that out pretty clearly through Google Translate too.
jcadam 7y ago
> Hiring decisions can use only information that the applicant provided. That would seem to preclude things like criminal background checks, or even calling up universities to verify any educational credentials the applicant listed on their resume.
- yulaow 7y ago
  Indeed in my nation you can't. You can ask the candidate to give you some self-certification of it which would put him under criminal trial if he lied, but you cannot contact any third party and ask for direct information (nor get an authorization to ask for direct information) about another person
- asjw 7y ago
  They can be explicitly requested by the employer or required by the law. I had to provide the criminal background and prove my studies to my current employer. I also had to pass a medical examination to obtain a certificate of eligibility to work. They are provided by the applicant anyway, you don't do secret background checks, at least you shouldn't.
- hyperman1 7y ago
  In my country, the state provides a cert to the applicant stating that his background is sufficiently clean. No more details. You can't tell if I am spotless or have done jail time but it was long enough ago not to matter anymore. It does containg language like ... has no criminal record, except for child molestation etc... Which doesnt mean we're a country full of perverts, only that it can't be trusted for jobs working with children, another cert is used for that.
- C1sc0cat 7y ago
  Most developed countries don't do BG check's for tuppenny ha'penny (trivial jobs) jobs in the same way the USA does. In the UK its only for working with kids and jobs requiring a proper security clearance.
squarefoot 7y ago
"Around here it's illegal to google applicants without their consent." Pretty sure that this is the first thing HR do everywhere, along with checking the personal page on social media etc. The first thing they look for is what the applicant told the world about his/her previous jobs and employers so that they avoid hiring people who talk too much.
- distances 7y ago
  I doubt this is widespread here. Companies don't want excess legal/reputational risks, especially professional HR folks are for sure aware of legislation they're operating under. In countries with more lax approach to privacy, yeah sure it's going to happen.
  - squarefoot 7y ago
    The problem is that if there's no accountability or clear legislation then nothing stops someone from entering a name into a search engine, also because being fined for doing so would reveal an unprecedented level of surveillance. It probably depends on the context as you write, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything: years ago, probably 20 or so, there was a report of some companies or recruiters using horoscopes to decide if hiring someone was advisable or not:^)
    - distances 7y ago
      But in this case there is clear legislation and accountability. Not surveillance sure, but trust that everyone follows the law, and plenty of people willing to speak up internally and externally if the law is broken. That's exactly how most laws work after all: no proactive surveillance, but consequences if caught.

jefftk 7y ago

Where is "Hiring decisions can use only information that the applicant provided" the law? This seems very excessive. For example, if I used to work with you at a different company and know you're really good it's very strange that I wouldn't be allowed to consider that in hiring you.

jfk13 7y ago
Surely there at least needs to be some way to seek independent verification (or otherwise) of the information provided by the applicant. We can't be expected to make hiring decisions solely and entirely on people's self-provided information.
- distances 7y ago
  You can ask for verifications of course. You can get copies of the degrees, access any GitHub account the applicant provides, call to former employers they provided as recommendations. If applicant refuses to do that, well, I suppose you can use that factoid in the hiring decision too. Just ask for permission to google if it's crucial for the process.
  - DarkWiiPlayer 7y ago
    That seems to be quite the reasonable law then.
distances 7y ago
Finland. For the Finnish speakers among us, it's "Laki yksityisyyden suojasta työelämässä". [0] Employers do ask opinions from employees within the company if they've worked together in the past. I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure if that's grey area or not. I don't find the law excessive, but I'm quite privacy oriented to start with. [0] https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2004/20040759 https://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2004/20040759
- jefftk 7y ago
  Thanks! I don't read Finnish so I'm reading your link in translation, but I don't see where in the law it says employers can't use outside sources of information in evaluating potential candidates? Could you point me to that section?
  - distances 7y ago
    4§, two first sentences lay that out pretty clearly through Google Translate too.

jcadam 7y ago

> Hiring decisions can use only information that the applicant provided. That would seem to preclude things like criminal background checks, or even calling up universities to verify any educational credentials the applicant listed on their resume.

yulaow 7y ago
Indeed in my nation you can't. You can ask the candidate to give you some self-certification of it which would put him under criminal trial if he lied, but you cannot contact any third party and ask for direct information (nor get an authorization to ask for direct information) about another person
asjw 7y ago
They can be explicitly requested by the employer or required by the law. I had to provide the criminal background and prove my studies to my current employer. I also had to pass a medical examination to obtain a certificate of eligibility to work. They are provided by the applicant anyway, you don't do secret background checks, at least you shouldn't.
hyperman1 7y ago
In my country, the state provides a cert to the applicant stating that his background is sufficiently clean. No more details. You can't tell if I am spotless or have done jail time but it was long enough ago not to matter anymore. It does containg language like ... has no criminal record, except for child molestation etc... Which doesnt mean we're a country full of perverts, only that it can't be trusted for jobs working with children, another cert is used for that.
C1sc0cat 7y ago
Most developed countries don't do BG check's for tuppenny ha'penny (trivial jobs) jobs in the same way the USA does. In the UK its only for working with kids and jobs requiring a proper security clearance.

squarefoot 7y ago

"Around here it's illegal to google applicants without their consent." Pretty sure that this is the first thing HR do everywhere, along with checking the personal page on social media etc. The first thing they look for is what the applicant told the world about his/her previous jobs and employers so that they avoid hiring people who talk too much.

distances 7y ago
I doubt this is widespread here. Companies don't want excess legal/reputational risks, especially professional HR folks are for sure aware of legislation they're operating under. In countries with more lax approach to privacy, yeah sure it's going to happen.
- squarefoot 7y ago
  The problem is that if there's no accountability or clear legislation then nothing stops someone from entering a name into a search engine, also because being fined for doing so would reveal an unprecedented level of surveillance. It probably depends on the context as you write, but I wouldn't be surprised by anything: years ago, probably 20 or so, there was a report of some companies or recruiters using horoscopes to decide if hiring someone was advisable or not:^)
  - distances 7y ago
    But in this case there is clear legislation and accountability. Not surveillance sure, but trust that everyone follows the law, and plenty of people willing to speak up internally and externally if the law is broken. That's exactly how most laws work after all: no proactive surveillance, but consequences if caught.