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I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded e

I don't understand why people believe that the "year of the maker FPGA" is ever going to happen. An FPGA is by its very nature a technology that many embedded engineers (let alone hobbyist maker types) will never take advantage of in earnest. I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on.

tnecniv 7y ago
I think it's wishful thinking. I loved the class I had in undergrad where we worked with them extensively. One of my favorite projects was making Pong on an FPGA --- complete with a direct VGA output. I've yearned for a project that would let me use one again, but I just haven't found anything that requires that kind of performance.
danharaj 7y ago
I bought a virtex 5 board to fuck around with just a few weeks ago. I probably won't do much at all with it that I couldn't do with a boring old microcontroller but I'm having a blast. Maybe it truly is the year.
gen3 7y ago
Honestly, I see benefits. For one, I have done dev work in higher level languages since I started. Learning and practicing bit level operations has been super interesting, and a great experience. I've gotten pretty good at FSM's, had to learn pipe-lining, and now have an overall better grasp of how the computer I'm writing for actually works. I think the challenge, along with the promise of low latency is what attracts people.
bb88 7y ago
Right now, the homebrew electronics industry is buzzing like linux and open source was in 1996. PCB design and manufacturing has been opened up to millions by cost reductions and open source software in the past few years. FPGA development is following suit as well. One of the big drawbacks of using an Arduino is that it is so limited in the number of modern devices it can access (USB 3, SATA, HDMI In or Out, etc). To that end I think LiteX maybe the most intriguing thing I've seen this year if it catches on popularity. It's an SoC builder, which would allow for DIY SoC's (including using a RISC V core). https://github.com/enjoy-digital/litex https://github.com/enjoy-digital/litex I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but it's looking more and more possible that FPGA's using LiteX or similar technology could disrupt the embedded micro controller market particularly for the homebrew market. You can choose the CPU you want to code for with the interfaces you're using. Also check out the current supported litex FPGA platforms: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTHfdYXuvwoYdPXm4M6qDA0D2fZCPy220-9q6qZpTw4/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTHfdYXuvwoYdPXm4M6q...
- UncleOxidant 7y ago
  Thanks for the heads up. LiteX looks really interesting.
- lnsru 7y ago
  You are ignoring price point. Small FPGA board from Digilent costs as much as Raspberry Pi 4 4 GB. Development on Raspberry Pi is much more convenient, it is powerful and it already has decent CSI-2, 4K HDMI, Ethernet. Comparable FPGA board goes for hundreds $/€. Because decent CSI-2 with high frame rate and resolution as well as 4K HDMI need decent FPGA with transceivers. Add long hardware development cycles and this gets really boring really fast for most hobbyists.
  - skybrian 7y ago
    I'm just getting started on electronics for an audio project, but the Arduino setup of compiling code on my regular computer and uploading it over USB to firmware seems pretty nice? Since I'm never going to connect it to the Internet or even a monitor, why does Ethernet or HDMI matter? Let alone 4K HDMI. It seems like that's more about having a cheap desktop computer than doing electronics? But I already have a desktop computer.
    - seabird 7y ago
      If you're going to do serious audio signals processing, you're probably going to very quickly find out that an 8bit Arduino and the Arduino environment are nowhere near powerful enough for your needs. If you really stick with it, you'll upgrade to something significantly more powerful (both hardware and tooling wise). If you start to push the limits of a 32bit microcontroller or DSP, but are still sensitive to price/power consumption/footprint/etc, then you will truly understand what the need for an FPGA is. That's my point; you as an embedded beginner (which is what most of the "maker" market is) are multiple revelations away from even beginning to understand why you would want to use an FPGA, let alone know how to work with one.
      - claudiawerner 7y ago
waste_monk 7y ago
>I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on. I can see people using it just for the convenience factor - if you can perform update the FPGA by loading a new bitstream via the arduino or the ESP32 (assuming that's a thing you can do) over IP or zigbee or something, you could fix mistakes remotely. Handy if you were using it for e.g. ham radio and had it mounted in a box at the top of a radio tower, and didn't feel like making the climbs to adjust it.
anyfoo 7y ago
FPGAs are pretty amazing for all kinds of signal processing, and that's what I use them for pretty extensively in my hobbies, but I don't really know how prevalent that is in the Maker community (especially beyond a level where you could use DSPs instead). Maybe for the SDR crowd?

tnecniv 7y ago

I think it's wishful thinking. I loved the class I had in undergrad where we worked with them extensively. One of my favorite projects was making Pong on an FPGA --- complete with a direct VGA output. I've yearned for a project that would let me use one again, but I just haven't found anything that requires that kind of performance.

danharaj 7y ago

I bought a virtex 5 board to fuck around with just a few weeks ago. I probably won't do much at all with it that I couldn't do with a boring old microcontroller but I'm having a blast. Maybe it truly is the year.

gen3 7y ago

Honestly, I see benefits. For one, I have done dev work in higher level languages since I started. Learning and practicing bit level operations has been super interesting, and a great experience. I've gotten pretty good at FSM's, had to learn pipe-lining, and now have an overall better grasp of how the computer I'm writing for actually works. I think the challenge, along with the promise of low latency is what attracts people.

bb88 7y ago

Right now, the homebrew electronics industry is buzzing like linux and open source was in 1996. PCB design and manufacturing has been opened up to millions by cost reductions and open source software in the past few years. FPGA development is following suit as well. One of the big drawbacks of using an Arduino is that it is so limited in the number of modern devices it can access (USB 3, SATA, HDMI In or Out, etc). To that end I think LiteX maybe the most intriguing thing I've seen this year if it catches on popularity. It's an SoC builder, which would allow for DIY SoC's (including using a RISC V core). https://github.com/enjoy-digital/litex https://github.com/enjoy-digital/litex I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but it's looking more and more possible that FPGA's using LiteX or similar technology could disrupt the embedded micro controller market particularly for the homebrew market. You can choose the CPU you want to code for with the interfaces you're using. Also check out the current supported litex FPGA platforms: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTHfdYXuvwoYdPXm4M6qDA0D2fZCPy220-9q6qZpTw4/edit#gid=0 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XTHfdYXuvwoYdPXm4M6q...

UncleOxidant 7y ago
Thanks for the heads up. LiteX looks really interesting.
lnsru 7y ago
You are ignoring price point. Small FPGA board from Digilent costs as much as Raspberry Pi 4 4 GB. Development on Raspberry Pi is much more convenient, it is powerful and it already has decent CSI-2, 4K HDMI, Ethernet. Comparable FPGA board goes for hundreds $/€. Because decent CSI-2 with high frame rate and resolution as well as 4K HDMI need decent FPGA with transceivers. Add long hardware development cycles and this gets really boring really fast for most hobbyists.
- skybrian 7y ago
  I'm just getting started on electronics for an audio project, but the Arduino setup of compiling code on my regular computer and uploading it over USB to firmware seems pretty nice? Since I'm never going to connect it to the Internet or even a monitor, why does Ethernet or HDMI matter? Let alone 4K HDMI. It seems like that's more about having a cheap desktop computer than doing electronics? But I already have a desktop computer.
  - seabird 7y ago
    If you're going to do serious audio signals processing, you're probably going to very quickly find out that an 8bit Arduino and the Arduino environment are nowhere near powerful enough for your needs. If you really stick with it, you'll upgrade to something significantly more powerful (both hardware and tooling wise). If you start to push the limits of a 32bit microcontroller or DSP, but are still sensitive to price/power consumption/footprint/etc, then you will truly understand what the need for an FPGA is. That's my point; you as an embedded beginner (which is what most of the "maker" market is) are multiple revelations away from even beginning to understand why you would want to use an FPGA, let alone know how to work with one.
    - claudiawerner 7y ago

waste_monk 7y ago

>I'd imagine that if you're developing hardware that requires an FPGA, odds are high that you don't need or want an Arduino bolt-on. I can see people using it just for the convenience factor - if you can perform update the FPGA by loading a new bitstream via the arduino or the ESP32 (assuming that's a thing you can do) over IP or zigbee or something, you could fix mistakes remotely. Handy if you were using it for e.g. ham radio and had it mounted in a box at the top of a radio tower, and didn't feel like making the climbs to adjust it.

anyfoo 7y ago

FPGAs are pretty amazing for all kinds of signal processing, and that's what I use them for pretty extensively in my hobbies, but I don't really know how prevalent that is in the Maker community (especially beyond a level where you could use DSPs instead). Maybe for the SDR crowd?