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I can't speak for all cases but there are often unknown medical conditions involved. My aunt got the flu one year and it weakened her heart so much that she req

I can't speak for all cases but there are often unknown medical conditions involved. My aunt got the flu one year and it weakened her heart so much that she required a transplant and while she lived for a while after that, she died at 27. Please vaccinate yourselves and loved ones even for the flu.

Fr0styMatt88 7y ago
A friend of mine runs a charity [1] that deals with providing AED (Automated External Defibrillator) devices to organisations. These things save lives. They can deliver shocks to the heart if necessary and can guide laypeople through giving CPR until help arrives (I think many models now actually tell you if you aren't giving strong enough compressions, for example). I would also highly recommend people go through this app [2] to get some familiarity with CPR. Then take a proper CPR course (I need to take my own advice on doing a proper course, actually). [1] https://responseforlife.org.au/ https://responseforlife.org.au/ [2] https://www.resus.org.uk/apps/lifesaver/ https://www.resus.org.uk/apps/lifesaver/
- hendry 7y ago
  AEDs have to be found very quickly. Most networks seem to require installing an app. ️
  - ascorbic 7y ago
    In the UK, the emergency services can tell you where the nearest one is. You need to call them to get the unlock code anyway.
    - RankingMember 7y ago
      Haha what? The AEDs are locked up? I don't think I've ever seen that here in the US.
      - erinaceousjones 7y ago
        Nah, vast majority aren't locked up here, from experience. Pubs in the UK tend to have them, as do larger shops, community halls, libraries, I've seen old red phone booths repurposed as AED storage, in Birmingham city centre I saw a really modern one like one of those light-up ad screen / phone booth / touchscreen signs, which could simultaneously call emergency services, deliver CPR advice on the screen and dispatch the AED stored underneath - was awesome. Honestly I'm surprised (and pleased) that they don't get stolen/vandalised more considering the amount that are just out there - though I don't know what you'd do with a black market AED lol. I have yet to see one that's properly locked up [that didn't have easy to break emergency glass, anyway]. My workplace has a few in special AED boxes, but those have the emergency glass and the hammer.
        ascorbic 7y ago
        Must be a southern thing. I've never seen an outdoor (or phoebox) one that doesn't have a keycode lock on it. You're supposed to call 999 before using one anyway, so it's not a major impediment.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  i see those AEDs popping up around, ie in the office, train station, every pharmacy around has them. My wife is an emergency doctor, an she has clear opinion about those - yes they save lives, but in most cases, people will end up as 'vegetables' (not sure what's the proper english term for +-brain death). I only presume she meant more severe heart attacks that would normally result in death prior to emergency arriving or shortly after. So don't expect miracles where none are currently possible. Do all you can obviously in case of need, and ideally make yourself familiar with procedures a bit, any delay will worsen the chances.
  - moftz 7y ago
    Just like with old school CPR, there's really no guarantee you won't be a vegetable. Maybe you get lucky and the person doing CPR does it right, the AED arrives soon enough, and the paramedics arrive soon enough. Always make sure you have a living will to cover such kinds of situations. I would hate having my vegetable body ending up in a fight between loved ones who want to keep me alive and loved ones who want to do the humane thing.
    - Erwin 7y ago
      Here in Denmark there's a volunteer "heart runner" programme. If someone calls 911 and has a cardiac arrest, people in the programme that nearby can be notified to fetch an available public AED and run to the patient (or attempt manual resuscitation). According to their material, the 30-day survival rate in Denmark has gone from 3.8% (2001) to 10.4% in 2016, with 67.5% bystander assistance: https://hjertestarter.dk/english/you-can-save-lives https://hjertestarter.dk/english/you-can-save-lives though it's not clear how much the programme itself can claim. According to various papers, rapid CPR/AED after a heart attack can triple survival rates. It's still pretty bleak outcome, but better than e.g. in 2002 Detroit, where 1 out of 471 out of hospital cardiac arrests (OHCA) survived to hospital discharge. In USA, all those stats are apparently being tracked by a programmed called CARES.
droopyEyelids 7y ago
Unfortunately, flu vaccination has not proven to be much more effective than prayer. Fortunately, it costs about the same! but still...
- richardw 7y ago
  "the overall estimated effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccine for preventing medically attended, laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection was 47%" https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6806a2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6806a2.htm Couldn't find the prayer stats.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    Couldn't find the prayer stats. I doubt there are any. It seems like a study fraught with problems, to put it mildly.
    - KineticLensman 7y ago
      I can’t find the source now but I remember hearing about a study into the efficacy of prayer. Briefly, the study recruited several Christians to pray for patients in a hospital. The patients were split into three groups: a control group who weren’t prayed for, a group who were prayed for but who weren’t told, and a group who were prayed for and were informed that they were being prayed for. Allegedly the patients in the last group had the most issues with concern and depression, allegedly because they assumed that because they were being prayed for, they were in fact really seriously ill.
      - DoreenMichele 7y ago
        Years ago, I joined a health list for parents of children with a very serious medical condition. When I joined, the discussion involved a lot of "Our child is facing X surgery. Please pray for us." The longer I was there, the more the discussion became "Our child is facing X surgery. Have you or your child had this surgery? Pros? Cons? Any good tips?" Prayer very often means "It's hopeless. Humans can't fix this. Our only hope is divine intervention." And it's hugely depressing and disempowering.

Fr0styMatt88 7y ago

A friend of mine runs a charity [1] that deals with providing AED (Automated External Defibrillator) devices to organisations. These things save lives. They can deliver shocks to the heart if necessary and can guide laypeople through giving CPR until help arrives (I think many models now actually tell you if you aren't giving strong enough compressions, for example). I would also highly recommend people go through this app [2] to get some familiarity with CPR. Then take a proper CPR course (I need to take my own advice on doing a proper course, actually). [1] https://responseforlife.org.au/ https://responseforlife.org.au/ [2] https://www.resus.org.uk/apps/lifesaver/ https://www.resus.org.uk/apps/lifesaver/

hendry 7y ago
AEDs have to be found very quickly. Most networks seem to require installing an app. ️
- ascorbic 7y ago
  In the UK, the emergency services can tell you where the nearest one is. You need to call them to get the unlock code anyway.
  - RankingMember 7y ago
    Haha what? The AEDs are locked up? I don't think I've ever seen that here in the US.
    - erinaceousjones 7y ago
      Nah, vast majority aren't locked up here, from experience. Pubs in the UK tend to have them, as do larger shops, community halls, libraries, I've seen old red phone booths repurposed as AED storage, in Birmingham city centre I saw a really modern one like one of those light-up ad screen / phone booth / touchscreen signs, which could simultaneously call emergency services, deliver CPR advice on the screen and dispatch the AED stored underneath - was awesome. Honestly I'm surprised (and pleased) that they don't get stolen/vandalised more considering the amount that are just out there - though I don't know what you'd do with a black market AED lol. I have yet to see one that's properly locked up [that didn't have easy to break emergency glass, anyway]. My workplace has a few in special AED boxes, but those have the emergency glass and the hammer.
      - ascorbic 7y ago
        Must be a southern thing. I've never seen an outdoor (or phoebox) one that doesn't have a keycode lock on it. You're supposed to call 999 before using one anyway, so it's not a major impediment.
saiya-jin 7y ago
i see those AEDs popping up around, ie in the office, train station, every pharmacy around has them. My wife is an emergency doctor, an she has clear opinion about those - yes they save lives, but in most cases, people will end up as 'vegetables' (not sure what's the proper english term for +-brain death). I only presume she meant more severe heart attacks that would normally result in death prior to emergency arriving or shortly after. So don't expect miracles where none are currently possible. Do all you can obviously in case of need, and ideally make yourself familiar with procedures a bit, any delay will worsen the chances.
- moftz 7y ago
  Just like with old school CPR, there's really no guarantee you won't be a vegetable. Maybe you get lucky and the person doing CPR does it right, the AED arrives soon enough, and the paramedics arrive soon enough. Always make sure you have a living will to cover such kinds of situations. I would hate having my vegetable body ending up in a fight between loved ones who want to keep me alive and loved ones who want to do the humane thing.
  - Erwin 7y ago
    Here in Denmark there's a volunteer "heart runner" programme. If someone calls 911 and has a cardiac arrest, people in the programme that nearby can be notified to fetch an available public AED and run to the patient (or attempt manual resuscitation). According to their material, the 30-day survival rate in Denmark has gone from 3.8% (2001) to 10.4% in 2016, with 67.5% bystander assistance: https://hjertestarter.dk/english/you-can-save-lives https://hjertestarter.dk/english/you-can-save-lives though it's not clear how much the programme itself can claim. According to various papers, rapid CPR/AED after a heart attack can triple survival rates. It's still pretty bleak outcome, but better than e.g. in 2002 Detroit, where 1 out of 471 out of hospital cardiac arrests (OHCA) survived to hospital discharge. In USA, all those stats are apparently being tracked by a programmed called CARES.

droopyEyelids 7y ago

Unfortunately, flu vaccination has not proven to be much more effective than prayer. Fortunately, it costs about the same! but still...

richardw 7y ago
"the overall estimated effectiveness of seasonal influenza vaccine for preventing medically attended, laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infection was 47%" https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6806a2.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/68/wr/mm6806a2.htm Couldn't find the prayer stats.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Couldn't find the prayer stats. I doubt there are any. It seems like a study fraught with problems, to put it mildly.
  - KineticLensman 7y ago
    I can’t find the source now but I remember hearing about a study into the efficacy of prayer. Briefly, the study recruited several Christians to pray for patients in a hospital. The patients were split into three groups: a control group who weren’t prayed for, a group who were prayed for but who weren’t told, and a group who were prayed for and were informed that they were being prayed for. Allegedly the patients in the last group had the most issues with concern and depression, allegedly because they assumed that because they were being prayed for, they were in fact really seriously ill.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      Years ago, I joined a health list for parents of children with a very serious medical condition. When I joined, the discussion involved a lot of "Our child is facing X surgery. Please pray for us." The longer I was there, the more the discussion became "Our child is facing X surgery. Have you or your child had this surgery? Pros? Cons? Any good tips?" Prayer very often means "It's hopeless. Humans can't fix this. Our only hope is divine intervention." And it's hugely depressing and disempowering.