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How in the world is the conversation not about the lack of ethics of the teachers and faculty who agree to serve as the amateur judges/questioners in these trib

How in the world is the conversation not about the lack of ethics of the teachers and faculty who agree to serve as the amateur judges/questioners in these tribunals? Hello, I spent a decade of my life learning just how difficult it is to become an expert in my very narrow field. In fact I spend most of my time helping undergrads refine their rank speculation into tractable problems to potentially guide them to a deeper understanding of even a tiny slice of my narrow specialty. What's that? You'd like me to serve on a jury for the school? No not on a jury, but instead to serve as a kind of combination panel judge and amateur lawyer? For what may be criminal allegations against a student? And you say there's no actual trained judicial expert to lead and constrain the process, but instead a handbook that will teach me in about an hour how to question a witness? Sorry, it's my minimal sense of civic and academic integrity calling. I really have to take this...

Paperweight 7y ago
So the system effectively selects for tribunal judges who are partial and/or unethical (re. the italicized)!
duxup 7y ago
At Baylor a former investigator described believing that because it was a religious school they expected there wouldn't be much for them to do. I have to wonder how much life experience someone has who thinks that... At a large public institution near me they had some lawyers review their processes. The resulting suggestions were pretty shocking. Things like, educating the accused as to what the process even was. Notifying the accused that there was an appeal (they apparently didn't do that all the time). Allowing all parties legal representation. And more detailed recording of testimony, mostly due to cases that involved concerns from accused students that their testimony that was recorded was inaccurate and had only been recorded by hand written notes taken by another student. In some cases their efforts to correct what they said seemed to be interpreted as lying... because it conflicted with the original notes (but not any factual conflict). It is mind boggling that any of the suggestions were needed. In the meantime the folks running the department investigating the reports are also tasked with writing the rules, investigating, judging....and on their own time advocating for various policies surrounding sexual assault.
jenkstom 7y ago
Because it's about public policy.
prepend 7y ago
Colleges are crazy places and professors do all sorts of weird things. I’m not sure why. I was in a student court for something stupid and it was kafkaesque. I had to sit and hear a professor accuse me. I was not able to object or ask questions despite the professor making factually incorrect statements about how the phone company worked. However, when I spoke the professor was able to object, cross examine and refute me. It was so weird and professors just sat there in the jury tolerating it. There’s a lot of fake BS in college besides the knowledge. I just avoided all that stuff because how they would make these unjust systems and be totally cool with it. I ended up talking with the Dean and he said he wasn’t interested in whether the process was fair he just wanted to find out if I “did it.” If anyone I know gets into a similar situation I’ll advise getting a lawyer and not speaking at all.

Paperweight 7y ago

So the system effectively selects for tribunal judges who are partial and/or unethical (re. the italicized)!

duxup 7y ago

At Baylor a former investigator described believing that because it was a religious school they expected there wouldn't be much for them to do. I have to wonder how much life experience someone has who thinks that... At a large public institution near me they had some lawyers review their processes. The resulting suggestions were pretty shocking. Things like, educating the accused as to what the process even was. Notifying the accused that there was an appeal (they apparently didn't do that all the time). Allowing all parties legal representation. And more detailed recording of testimony, mostly due to cases that involved concerns from accused students that their testimony that was recorded was inaccurate and had only been recorded by hand written notes taken by another student. In some cases their efforts to correct what they said seemed to be interpreted as lying... because it conflicted with the original notes (but not any factual conflict). It is mind boggling that any of the suggestions were needed. In the meantime the folks running the department investigating the reports are also tasked with writing the rules, investigating, judging....and on their own time advocating for various policies surrounding sexual assault.

jenkstom 7y ago

Because it's about public policy.

prepend 7y ago

Colleges are crazy places and professors do all sorts of weird things. I’m not sure why. I was in a student court for something stupid and it was kafkaesque. I had to sit and hear a professor accuse me. I was not able to object or ask questions despite the professor making factually incorrect statements about how the phone company worked. However, when I spoke the professor was able to object, cross examine and refute me. It was so weird and professors just sat there in the jury tolerating it. There’s a lot of fake BS in college besides the knowledge. I just avoided all that stuff because how they would make these unjust systems and be totally cool with it. I ended up talking with the Dean and he said he wasn’t interested in whether the process was fair he just wanted to find out if I “did it.” If anyone I know gets into a similar situation I’ll advise getting a lawyer and not speaking at all.