19 ms·

Kosher Cell Phone

15 points by r29vzg2 7y ago

trigoogirt 7y ago
It actually started from "Kosher lines", special subscriptions provided by MNO, with intentionally limited service (blacklisting phone numbers for calls and text, as well as blacklisting websites). Once teenagers started buying their own subscriptions, it was decided to move the blacklisting into the HW - hence the kosher phones. Fun fact: since the Jewish orthodox community is relatively poor, yet a strong "buying force" due to their big number, they were able to negotiate very low rates with the MNOs. To prevent secular people from taking advantage of these rates, the Kosher Lines include big fines if used for incoming/outgoing call on Sabath... For more info: the translated page from Wikipedoa - https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fhe.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25D7%25A1%25D7%259C%25D7%2595%25D7%259C%25D7%25A8%25D7%2599_%25D7%259B%25D7%25A9%25D7%25A8 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...
ineedasername 7y ago
There are other such work arounds, like elevators that run constantly, stopping on every floor, to the user doesn't have to push the buttons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator
kelnos 7y ago
One of the defining features seems to be that it has no text messaging facilities, and can only make and receive calls, because texting apparently leads to "immodesty"[0]: > Texting is not only a waste of time, the [rabbinical] authorities found, it encourages "immodest" exchanges which would not happen on the telephone or face to face. I just... I know religion is a difficult topic for many people. I was raised Catholic (CCD once a week through 8th grade, completed all the sacraments, attended Mass nearly every weekend until I was 18 and left home), but became an atheist when I was in my early teens (privately, as my parents would have punished me had they known). I found a lot of things wrong with Catholicism, but one of the big issues I had was many parishoners' blind adherence to dogma, and their sudden inability to think critically where any aspect of religion was concerned. This struck me as something that could be -- and it turned out, is -- easily abused by religious leaders. So this prohibition on texting just seems like a method of control to me. It feels cherry-picked, and the reason for banning it seems contrived. There are so many other ways to be "immodest" that it feels weird to focus on something like this. Where do these things come from? It seems so arbitrary and capricious. Orthodox Judaism seems full of things like this, especially the prohibition on doing certain things on the Sabbath. I remember reading about how it's not ok to use an elevator on the Sabbath, and workarounds like elevators that automatically always stop at every floor, or waiting for a non-Jewish person to use the elevator to piggyback on their usage. It just feels so intellectually dishonest, like finding ways to follow the letter of the rules while completely ignoring their spirit. [0] https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-25/kosher-phones-britains-orthodox-jews https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-25/kosher-phones-britain... (linked as a source from the posted Wikipedia article)
- toomanybeersies 7y ago
  > Judaism seems full of things like this, especially the prohibition on doing certain things on the Sabbath Specifically Orthodox Judaism. Most Jewish people (at least the ones I know) don't bother with all that stuff. Same as Christianity, there are a lot of non-religious Jews. They follow Jewish culture (e.g. holidays, cuisine, and tradition), but don't adhere to strict dogma. Most of my Jewish friends will eat pork if you offer it to them, even if they wouldn't usually eat it at home because it's not a cultural norm.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I get that (and updated my post to qualify with "Orthodox"); that's not really the point. I of course am aware of many people who joke they're "the worst Jew ever" and such like that, because they identify with the group, but don't practice any of the religious aspects. But that's not really the point. There exist people who do strictly follow the religious aspects, and that's what I'm confused about.
- mc32 7y ago
  Interestingly a significant portion of buyers are seculars who “want a simple phone”. So it’s not just people who (blindly?) follow doctrine, but others who find benefit in the respite it gives them.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    Sure, and I think it's great that someone is serving that market need, if indirectly, but the kosher phone exists for religious reasons; purchases by non-Orthodox Jews is incidental.
- herostratus101 7y ago
  Why do you care? Has anyone ever tried to convert you to Orthodox Judaism?
  - lordlic 7y ago
themodelplumber 7y ago
I was thinking these were just older phones so I was surprised to see a Galaxy s10e in a kosher store when I checked just now. The value-add: It has 1) No browser and 2) no way to connect to the internet except through approved apps. There is a pretty interesting market for various internet-interface devices among religious cultures.
pkamb 7y ago
I've been using a secondary iPhone SE as my "gym phone" and I really love it. Majorly cuts down on time wasting. No web browser. No Instagram. Just podcasts, Music, and Netflix. AirPods work perfectly, and Overcast syncs my podcasts with my main phone. Seamless.
shmerl 7y ago
This is more of a business scheme, than a social one. I.e. sellers of such services made huge amount of money by hyping it up and getting a narrow market, trying to claim, using other options is forbidden. So even in orthodox Jewish communities such efforts are often seen as pursuing ulterior motives and therefore aren't really looked upon positively.
tibbydudeza 7y ago
Have an aunt in old age home and she finally upgraded to a Android phone (LG Q60) after using a Nokia 3110 ... her biggest complaint was that the phone could not take photos. I wish there was an "old folk" interface to switch on in Android ... spent the entire Saturday hiding and removing unnecessary clutter so she can only see the dialer, contacts, sms , camera, gallery and whatsapp on her home page.

15 points by r29vzg2 7y ago

It actually started from "Kosher lines", special subscriptions provided by MNO, with intentionally limited service (blacklisting phone numbers for calls and text, as well as blacklisting websites). Once teenagers started buying their own subscriptions, it was decided to move the blacklisting into the HW - hence the kosher phones. Fun fact: since the Jewish orthodox community is relatively poor, yet a strong "buying force" due to their big number, they were able to negotiate very low rates with the MNOs. To prevent secular people from taking advantage of these rates, the Kosher Lines include big fines if used for incoming/outgoing call on Sabath... For more info: the translated page from Wikipedoa - https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fhe.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25D7%25A1%25D7%259C%25D7%2595%25D7%259C%25D7%25A8%25D7%2599_%25D7%259B%25D7%25A9%25D7%25A8 https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https...

ineedasername 7y ago

There are other such work arounds, like elevators that run constantly, stopping on every floor, to the user doesn't have to push the buttons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat_elevator

kelnos 7y ago

One of the defining features seems to be that it has no text messaging facilities, and can only make and receive calls, because texting apparently leads to "immodesty"[0]: > Texting is not only a waste of time, the [rabbinical] authorities found, it encourages "immodest" exchanges which would not happen on the telephone or face to face. I just... I know religion is a difficult topic for many people. I was raised Catholic (CCD once a week through 8th grade, completed all the sacraments, attended Mass nearly every weekend until I was 18 and left home), but became an atheist when I was in my early teens (privately, as my parents would have punished me had they known). I found a lot of things wrong with Catholicism, but one of the big issues I had was many parishoners' blind adherence to dogma, and their sudden inability to think critically where any aspect of religion was concerned. This struck me as something that could be -- and it turned out, is -- easily abused by religious leaders. So this prohibition on texting just seems like a method of control to me. It feels cherry-picked, and the reason for banning it seems contrived. There are so many other ways to be "immodest" that it feels weird to focus on something like this. Where do these things come from? It seems so arbitrary and capricious. Orthodox Judaism seems full of things like this, especially the prohibition on doing certain things on the Sabbath. I remember reading about how it's not ok to use an elevator on the Sabbath, and workarounds like elevators that automatically always stop at every floor, or waiting for a non-Jewish person to use the elevator to piggyback on their usage. It just feels so intellectually dishonest, like finding ways to follow the letter of the rules while completely ignoring their spirit. [0] https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-25/kosher-phones-britains-orthodox-jews https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-01-25/kosher-phones-britain... (linked as a source from the posted Wikipedia article)

toomanybeersies 7y ago
> Judaism seems full of things like this, especially the prohibition on doing certain things on the Sabbath Specifically Orthodox Judaism. Most Jewish people (at least the ones I know) don't bother with all that stuff. Same as Christianity, there are a lot of non-religious Jews. They follow Jewish culture (e.g. holidays, cuisine, and tradition), but don't adhere to strict dogma. Most of my Jewish friends will eat pork if you offer it to them, even if they wouldn't usually eat it at home because it's not a cultural norm.
- kelnos 7y ago
  I get that (and updated my post to qualify with "Orthodox"); that's not really the point. I of course am aware of many people who joke they're "the worst Jew ever" and such like that, because they identify with the group, but don't practice any of the religious aspects. But that's not really the point. There exist people who do strictly follow the religious aspects, and that's what I'm confused about.
mc32 7y ago
Interestingly a significant portion of buyers are seculars who “want a simple phone”. So it’s not just people who (blindly?) follow doctrine, but others who find benefit in the respite it gives them.
- kelnos 7y ago
  Sure, and I think it's great that someone is serving that market need, if indirectly, but the kosher phone exists for religious reasons; purchases by non-Orthodox Jews is incidental.
herostratus101 7y ago
Why do you care? Has anyone ever tried to convert you to Orthodox Judaism?
- lordlic 7y ago

themodelplumber 7y ago

I was thinking these were just older phones so I was surprised to see a Galaxy s10e in a kosher store when I checked just now. The value-add: It has 1) No browser and 2) no way to connect to the internet except through approved apps. There is a pretty interesting market for various internet-interface devices among religious cultures.

pkamb 7y ago

I've been using a secondary iPhone SE as my "gym phone" and I really love it. Majorly cuts down on time wasting. No web browser. No Instagram. Just podcasts, Music, and Netflix. AirPods work perfectly, and Overcast syncs my podcasts with my main phone. Seamless.

shmerl 7y ago

This is more of a business scheme, than a social one. I.e. sellers of such services made huge amount of money by hyping it up and getting a narrow market, trying to claim, using other options is forbidden. So even in orthodox Jewish communities such efforts are often seen as pursuing ulterior motives and therefore aren't really looked upon positively.

tibbydudeza 7y ago

Have an aunt in old age home and she finally upgraded to a Android phone (LG Q60) after using a Nokia 3110 ... her biggest complaint was that the phone could not take photos. I wish there was an "old folk" interface to switch on in Android ... spent the entire Saturday hiding and removing unnecessary clutter so she can only see the dialer, contacts, sms , camera, gallery and whatsapp on her home page.