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The issue I have with the "learn to ___ on your own" industry that's popped up is that it doesn't take into account accountability for the student. Take getti

The issue I have with the "learn to ___ on your own" industry that's popped up is that it doesn't take into account accountability for the student. Take getting into shape as an example. Excluding obvious disabilities there's really nothing holding anyone back. Even with horrible schedules you can absolutely go out and join a gym, lose weight, and get ripped. Heck, you don't even need to join a gym. Everything you need you probably already have. And many people out there do. But the majority doesn't. Getting a personal trainer or joining a class adds accountability. On days that you don't want to train, well you have an appointment so you kind of have to or call it off. In the end it takes the person pushing themselves. And unless the person has a real love for the material, people just won't. And it's kind of lousy that this is treated as a horrible personal failing when it's pretty much how people operate. Even a poor teacher at the very least adds accountability.

wallace_f 7y ago
In that case, I wonder what putting down $10-100,000 as an incentive plan would do for a sample of student's resulting grades vs another sample spending that on tuition.
- seventhtiger 7y ago
  Investment is a factor but it's not the main one for me personally. It's the structured environment and comradery.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> In the end it takes the person pushing themselves. And unless the person has a real love for the material, people just won't. Love for the material isn't the only possible motivation; people need motivation and discipline to stick with it, but the motivation doesn't have to be love of the material and there's no reason that that motivation or discipline has to be integrated. Some people will bring their own (of both), people that have the first can get the other by any number of means. Sure, there are programs that package everything (except probably basic motivation) together, and sure, they are good for some people, but they aren't necessarily ideal for everyone, and certainly aren't always the most cost effective for people that have their own motivation and discipline.
throw_xyzyz 7y ago
> Take getting into shape as an example. Excluding obvious disabilities there's really nothing holding anyone back. Even with horrible schedules you can absolutely go out and join a gym, lose weight, and get ripped. Like always getting into shape is mostly about not eating rather than exercising. With our highly processed food one could do nothing but run marathons day in day out and still be morbidly obese.
- tsumnia 7y ago
  I heartfelt disagree and believe that people that push this type of belief are the ones that think being skinny is being fit. Further, look at the amount of calories required to be a strong man. To be "in shape" IS about how much they consume.
  - throw_xyzyz 7y ago
    I always look at the money. If research that goes against the interests of a huge multinational oligopoly has an r value less than 0.1 it's probably true. Saying that you should just exercise more is literally an opinion taken from a Coca Cola commercial: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/cokes-unconscionable-new-ad/267185/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/cokes-unc...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]

wallace_f 7y ago

In that case, I wonder what putting down $10-100,000 as an incentive plan would do for a sample of student's resulting grades vs another sample spending that on tuition.

seventhtiger 7y ago
Investment is a factor but it's not the main one for me personally. It's the structured environment and comradery.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> In the end it takes the person pushing themselves. And unless the person has a real love for the material, people just won't. Love for the material isn't the only possible motivation; people need motivation and discipline to stick with it, but the motivation doesn't have to be love of the material and there's no reason that that motivation or discipline has to be integrated. Some people will bring their own (of both), people that have the first can get the other by any number of means. Sure, there are programs that package everything (except probably basic motivation) together, and sure, they are good for some people, but they aren't necessarily ideal for everyone, and certainly aren't always the most cost effective for people that have their own motivation and discipline.

throw_xyzyz 7y ago

> Take getting into shape as an example. Excluding obvious disabilities there's really nothing holding anyone back. Even with horrible schedules you can absolutely go out and join a gym, lose weight, and get ripped. Like always getting into shape is mostly about not eating rather than exercising. With our highly processed food one could do nothing but run marathons day in day out and still be morbidly obese.

tsumnia 7y ago
I heartfelt disagree and believe that people that push this type of belief are the ones that think being skinny is being fit. Further, look at the amount of calories required to be a strong man. To be "in shape" IS about how much they consume.
- throw_xyzyz 7y ago
  I always look at the money. If research that goes against the interests of a huge multinational oligopoly has an r value less than 0.1 it's probably true. Saying that you should just exercise more is literally an opinion taken from a Coca Cola commercial: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/cokes-unconscionable-new-ad/267185/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/01/cokes-unc...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]