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I have mixed feelings about this. A friend of mine grew up very poor in a tiny rural town with no known family that ever went to college. But he worked at a nea

I have mixed feelings about this. A friend of mine grew up very poor in a tiny rural town with no known family that ever went to college. But he worked at a nearly superhuman level in high school and got into an Ivy league school. He is also charming and funny and by his third year was friends with influential enough people that he was attending THE White House Christmas party. Now he works where and for whom he wants because he has connections in the upper level of society that like him and know his competence. Without legacy admissions for him to make friends with, all that might not have happened. Merit admissions give the legacies legitimacy. Legacy admissions give the superhumans opportunity. This is simplified and certainly not the only way to let people achieve escape velocity. But it's what I saw happen to one of the most impressive people I know.

lammalamma25 7y ago
I think there is an aspect of this that is ugly but probably true. The wealth and power staying at Harvard isn't there because it deserves to be. It helps people that deserve to be there and they help it.
throwaway_law 7y ago
>Merit admissions give the legacies legitimacy. Legacy admissions give the superhumans opportunity Taking you at face value your superhuman friend is going to White House parties, while you have the legacy admissions, such as G.W. Bush's of the world, running the White House. I'd rather see this system and cycle broken than a few well deserved people get invited into the inner circle.
- jankyxenon 7y ago
  Please defined "well deserved". Sounds nice. Who decides?
  - throwaway_law 7y ago
    In this context the commenter I responded to who described his friend as superhuman, and as I explained I was accepting that at face value
- akhilcacharya 7y ago
  Perfectly said. Social engineering to benefit the current elite while selecting a few token representatives from the real world doesn’t do a thing to help 99% of this country.
  - mav3rick 7y ago
    Harvard has way more than legacy admissions. Why do you care anyway ? In your head it mustn't be good with all these "legacy admissions".
    - throwaway_law 7y ago
      There is an elite/political/ruling class in the US, and one way they maintain their status is through a false sense of meritocracy. For example, GW Bush isn't just a spoiled rich kid and son of a former President, he went to Yale and Harvard, thus he can be marketed as smart and hardworking because those are the top institutions in the country. Yet, no one ever accused GW of being a Rhodes scholar, and those Ivy League credentials are nearly impossible for non-elites, but essentially given to the ruling elite and qualifying these people for the best jobs, even being President of the US. Legacy Admissions are a fraud on the working class, and indicative why the US has the lowest social mobility of any 1st world nation.
      - akhilcacharya 7y ago
        The current US president launders this credibility as well (he talks about Wharton more than W talked about Yale) and transferred it to his kids despite being a transfer student.
      - mav3rick 7y ago
        A counter point 3 of my friends who had no money from India got accepted into Harvard purely on the merit of their talents. Same with the son of a blue collar worker here. You have conveniently setup a shield in your head where this ceiling will never let you break it. Well, how about you look inside and grow yourself ? Instead of calling yourself not a part of the "elite".
tathougies 7y ago
> Merit admissions give the legacies legitimacy. Legacy admissions give the superhumans opportunity. On initial inspection, this seems like a really sensible explanation. Unfortunately, it does not match reality. Studies show that those who get into top schools and don't attend do as well as those who do get in and attend. In other words, the admissions itself serves as an indication that this person is top-notch and capable of great things. With this in mind, legacy admissions does nothing other than to help the legacy students network with the merit students. Merit students clearly get no benefit. Thus, the only conclusion is that merit students exist so that legacy students can continue to uphold their family's hegemony. Study: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2011/03/01/the-ivy-league-earnings-myth https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/...
- cobbzilla 7y ago
  > Merit students clearly get no benefit. If the merit students have talent and not so much money, wouldn't you want them to rub elbows with legacy students who maybe have lots of money but not so much talent? Entrepreneurs need investors.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    But they do just as well if they hadn't rubbed elbows with legacy students. That's what the study found. > Entrepreneurs need investors. Investors also need entrepreneurs to create the mechanisms of wealth creation. Aside from angel investing, most VC money is via institutional funds (perhaps with substantial contributions from individual accredited investors). The VC, as a steward of others money, needs to find entrepreneurs who are able to drive a high enough possibility of a great rate of return. Actually, given that there are entrepreneurs who were able to make it without large substantial investment, whereas there are no investors able to make it without the involvement of entrepreneurs, I'm going to hazard to say that investors need entrepreneurs more than entrepreneurs need investors, even if marginally.
- nessus42 7y ago
  > Merit students clearly get no benefit You're basing this conclusion based on an earnings study? That's pretty questionable reasoning! I received an incredible education from MIT (and I was admitted based on merit), but I took that education and went to work for non-profit research institutes, because making as much money as possible was not my primary objective.
xiaolingxiao 7y ago
This is true and I can relate. College break down barriers even if it’s just partial and just for a short period of time. This does wonders. And not all legacies are lackey failures, many work quite hard and actively hide the fact they’re legacy. This make sense, so long as you raise your kids well, there’s no reason they should be entitled, they may even inherit your work ethic and intelligence.
twic 7y ago
Oxford doesn't have legacy admissions. Oxford still offers people access to a network of eye-wateringly well-connected people.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Oxford’s legacy admissions process is simply outsourced to Eton, it’s no less a thing for that quirk.

lammalamma25 7y ago

I think there is an aspect of this that is ugly but probably true. The wealth and power staying at Harvard isn't there because it deserves to be. It helps people that deserve to be there and they help it.

throwaway_law 7y ago

>Merit admissions give the legacies legitimacy. Legacy admissions give the superhumans opportunity Taking you at face value your superhuman friend is going to White House parties, while you have the legacy admissions, such as G.W. Bush's of the world, running the White House. I'd rather see this system and cycle broken than a few well deserved people get invited into the inner circle.

jankyxenon 7y ago
Please defined "well deserved". Sounds nice. Who decides?
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  In this context the commenter I responded to who described his friend as superhuman, and as I explained I was accepting that at face value
akhilcacharya 7y ago
Perfectly said. Social engineering to benefit the current elite while selecting a few token representatives from the real world doesn’t do a thing to help 99% of this country.
- mav3rick 7y ago
  Harvard has way more than legacy admissions. Why do you care anyway ? In your head it mustn't be good with all these "legacy admissions".
  - throwaway_law 7y ago
    There is an elite/political/ruling class in the US, and one way they maintain their status is through a false sense of meritocracy. For example, GW Bush isn't just a spoiled rich kid and son of a former President, he went to Yale and Harvard, thus he can be marketed as smart and hardworking because those are the top institutions in the country. Yet, no one ever accused GW of being a Rhodes scholar, and those Ivy League credentials are nearly impossible for non-elites, but essentially given to the ruling elite and qualifying these people for the best jobs, even being President of the US. Legacy Admissions are a fraud on the working class, and indicative why the US has the lowest social mobility of any 1st world nation.
    - akhilcacharya 7y ago
      The current US president launders this credibility as well (he talks about Wharton more than W talked about Yale) and transferred it to his kids despite being a transfer student.
    - mav3rick 7y ago
      A counter point 3 of my friends who had no money from India got accepted into Harvard purely on the merit of their talents. Same with the son of a blue collar worker here. You have conveniently setup a shield in your head where this ceiling will never let you break it. Well, how about you look inside and grow yourself ? Instead of calling yourself not a part of the "elite".

tathougies 7y ago

> Merit admissions give the legacies legitimacy. Legacy admissions give the superhumans opportunity. On initial inspection, this seems like a really sensible explanation. Unfortunately, it does not match reality. Studies show that those who get into top schools and don't attend do as well as those who do get in and attend. In other words, the admissions itself serves as an indication that this person is top-notch and capable of great things. With this in mind, legacy admissions does nothing other than to help the legacy students network with the merit students. Merit students clearly get no benefit. Thus, the only conclusion is that merit students exist so that legacy students can continue to uphold their family's hegemony. Study: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2011/03/01/the-ivy-league-earnings-myth https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/...

cobbzilla 7y ago
> Merit students clearly get no benefit. If the merit students have talent and not so much money, wouldn't you want them to rub elbows with legacy students who maybe have lots of money but not so much talent? Entrepreneurs need investors.
- tathougies 7y ago
  But they do just as well if they hadn't rubbed elbows with legacy students. That's what the study found. > Entrepreneurs need investors. Investors also need entrepreneurs to create the mechanisms of wealth creation. Aside from angel investing, most VC money is via institutional funds (perhaps with substantial contributions from individual accredited investors). The VC, as a steward of others money, needs to find entrepreneurs who are able to drive a high enough possibility of a great rate of return. Actually, given that there are entrepreneurs who were able to make it without large substantial investment, whereas there are no investors able to make it without the involvement of entrepreneurs, I'm going to hazard to say that investors need entrepreneurs more than entrepreneurs need investors, even if marginally.
nessus42 7y ago
> Merit students clearly get no benefit You're basing this conclusion based on an earnings study? That's pretty questionable reasoning! I received an incredible education from MIT (and I was admitted based on merit), but I took that education and went to work for non-profit research institutes, because making as much money as possible was not my primary objective.

xiaolingxiao 7y ago

This is true and I can relate. College break down barriers even if it’s just partial and just for a short period of time. This does wonders. And not all legacies are lackey failures, many work quite hard and actively hide the fact they’re legacy. This make sense, so long as you raise your kids well, there’s no reason they should be entitled, they may even inherit your work ethic and intelligence.

twic 7y ago

Oxford doesn't have legacy admissions. Oxford still offers people access to a network of eye-wateringly well-connected people.

goatinaboat 7y ago
Oxford’s legacy admissions process is simply outsourced to Eton, it’s no less a thing for that quirk.