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people wait in lines and put deposits to buy Tesla’s product

by option 7y ago

Robotbeat 7y ago
I don't know why you're down-voted. Tesla's brand is super valuable; their electric car tech (particularly their efficiency and energy density and charging technology--not just raw rate, but the form factor of their charging tech) is heads above their competitors. If they ran into serious trouble, someone would buy them up so hard. Electric cars (heck, automotive manufacturing in general) are a tough business. Tesla is now competing at a (soon) $7500 disadvantage in the US compared to most of their competitors due to the phase out of the EV credit. Gas prices are incredibly, ridiculously low. And yet they're still in very high demand, outselling everyone else in the US in raw unit sales and globally in revenue. That's no guarantee that things couldn't get worse, but Tesla has outlived many of its detractors before, and it's not just because of Elon Musk.
- rainyMammoth 7y ago
  Sorry but WHAT? That's not how it works. The 7500$ is a huge advantage for Tesla today that was pushed through a lot of lobbying. It literally means that everyone's tax money is subsidizing luxury cars for the rich. Once this gets phased out, they will have to compete with regular prices against normal car and their high price point will make it way less attractive. It is true that soon competitors will still get the 7500$ tax cut while Tesla exhausted theirs. That's simply because they use all their credits and now need to come to a price point that makes sense without subsidies.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    It IS how it works. The $7500 credit is all but completely phased out already for Tesla (it's only $1,875 right now). And yet they're STILL outcompeting the other Plug-in electric cars in the US by a large margin (13,150 Model 3s in August versus 2500 Prius Prime, the next most-sold plug-in vehicle). That is my point. It's an advantage to conventional carmakers who wait to the last minute to invest in electrification, after someone else has done all the hard work, and just integrate some off the shelf electric drivetrain. It puts those who actually invest in a full, cleansheet efficient electric drivetrain domestically in the US (like Tesla and GM) at a big disadvantage versus foreign firms or for multinational corporations like the Volkswagen group who have multiple subsidiaries like Audi, VW, Porsche who each get their own group of credits (even though the Volkswagen Group's MEB platform will be available to all their subsidiaries). It makes no sense and incentivizes the wrong behavior: advantages foreign firms above domestic. Advantages latecomers over those with the foresight to invest early (Tesla and GM, for example). There either should be one big pot of credits, or the credits should be sunsetted on a global timeline (instead of by number). And until conventional cars are paying for their full externalities from carbon emissions (and others), they are being implicitly subsidized and an EV credit of some sort (although imperfect) will be needed to level the playing field.

people wait in lines and put deposits to buy Tesla’s product

by option 7y ago

people wait in lines and put deposits to buy Tesla’s product

I don't know why you're down-voted. Tesla's brand is super valuable; their electric car tech (particularly their efficiency and energy density and charging technology--not just raw rate, but the form factor of their charging tech) is heads above their competitors. If they ran into serious trouble, someone would buy them up so hard. Electric cars (heck, automotive manufacturing in general) are a tough business. Tesla is now competing at a (soon) $7500 disadvantage in the US compared to most of their competitors due to the phase out of the EV credit. Gas prices are incredibly, ridiculously low. And yet they're still in very high demand, outselling everyone else in the US in raw unit sales and globally in revenue. That's no guarantee that things couldn't get worse, but Tesla has outlived many of its detractors before, and it's not just because of Elon Musk.

rainyMammoth 7y ago
Sorry but WHAT? That's not how it works. The 7500$ is a huge advantage for Tesla today that was pushed through a lot of lobbying. It literally means that everyone's tax money is subsidizing luxury cars for the rich. Once this gets phased out, they will have to compete with regular prices against normal car and their high price point will make it way less attractive. It is true that soon competitors will still get the 7500$ tax cut while Tesla exhausted theirs. That's simply because they use all their credits and now need to come to a price point that makes sense without subsidies.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  It IS how it works. The $7500 credit is all but completely phased out already for Tesla (it's only $1,875 right now). And yet they're STILL outcompeting the other Plug-in electric cars in the US by a large margin (13,150 Model 3s in August versus 2500 Prius Prime, the next most-sold plug-in vehicle). That is my point. It's an advantage to conventional carmakers who wait to the last minute to invest in electrification, after someone else has done all the hard work, and just integrate some off the shelf electric drivetrain. It puts those who actually invest in a full, cleansheet efficient electric drivetrain domestically in the US (like Tesla and GM) at a big disadvantage versus foreign firms or for multinational corporations like the Volkswagen group who have multiple subsidiaries like Audi, VW, Porsche who each get their own group of credits (even though the Volkswagen Group's MEB platform will be available to all their subsidiaries). It makes no sense and incentivizes the wrong behavior: advantages foreign firms above domestic. Advantages latecomers over those with the foresight to invest early (Tesla and GM, for example). There either should be one big pot of credits, or the credits should be sunsetted on a global timeline (instead of by number). And until conventional cars are paying for their full externalities from carbon emissions (and others), they are being implicitly subsidized and an EV credit of some sort (although imperfect) will be needed to level the playing field.