6 ms·

I wonder why they aren't advertising mouse support. This seems like one of the most useful features to me. They didn't mention it on the keynote and I can't fin

I wonder why they aren't advertising mouse support. This seems like one of the most useful features to me. They didn't mention it on the keynote and I can't find it on their website anywhere. Any thoughts on why Apple wouldn't be pushing this as a major advancement for iPad?

mrpinc 7y ago
The mouse support is supposed to be focused on accessibility for people with disabilities, it's not everyday user focused.
- wffurr 7y ago
  If it's not good enough for everyday users then it's also not good enough for people with disabilities. Who, I note, also use the device every day and deserve a good experience too.
  - herpes 7y ago
    Apple has arguably the highest quality accessibility support in the industry. Have you tried the feature? Because I have and it's very usable. Just not pretty.
ogre_codes 7y ago
Because it's not very good mouse support. It's basically a simulated finger. If they started advertising this, people would rightly criticize it for being mediocre. For the moment anyhow, the iPad is a touch device with an optional virtual finger you can plug into it.
- xienze 7y ago
  > Because it's not very good mouse support. It's basically a simulated finger. All I want for them to do is allow third party applications to support real mice in the way that you'd expect a real mouse to behave. The killer app would be remote desktop. I understand that there's literally one model of mouse that works with one specific remote desktop app, but I don't want that, I want to use my own mouse.
  - MuffinFlavored 7y ago
    I've always thought the idea of programming on an iPad with a keyboard + mouse would be cool, but now it is very apparent that if that idea has any chance of working, it would pretty much be centered around using the iPad solely as a remote desktop tool. I would also imagine the latency that comes with that would be annoying. I wonder if Apple will ever do what Microsoft did with the surface and just put full blown Mac OS on it. I'm going to guess no due to this iPadOS with swipey gestures thing. I'd buy it if they did... I think.
    - ogre_codes 7y ago
      That's basically what the Surface is, and the vast majority of people who own them use them as laptops. At that point, why not just use a laptop? I've done a fair amount of dev work on the iPad, if you have a good SFTP friendly editor like Coda, you can do development work on a remote server, but ultimately you are tied to that server for a build environment. It works fairly well, but since remote shells tend to disconnect in the background it can be frustrating to build stuff.
pier25 7y ago
I think one reason is that it looks half baked. Instead of a cursor you get a blob which simulates a finger. Another reason might be because Apple has been avoiding mixing touch screens with mice. Not sure why. Maybe because Microsoft did it first or maybe because Apple doesn't want to canibalize sales between products. Anyway, a macOS touch laptop would be amazing or an iPad pro runnning an iOS/macOS combo. Sidecar will get us a bit closer to that.
- mostlysimilar 7y ago
  I've never been convinced about a touchscreen macOS. The quality of the interface in Windows took a nosedive when they started trying to account for both finger-poking and precision cursor use. I would hate to see that happen to macOS. My preference is to let macOS/MacBooks stay keyboard/mouse, and let iPadOS/iPad be the touch device.
  - uptown 7y ago
    You may not be convinced, but the generation of younger kids expect every screen to be a touch screen. It's amusing to watch my kids (3 and 5) touch the screen expecting it to react the same way an iPad or iPhone responds.
    - Miraste 7y ago
      All the Windows laptops I use have touchscreens now, and MacBooks have started to feel old-fashioned. I have to stop myself from poking the screen.
  - pier25 7y ago
    It's really an implementation problem not a conceptual one. Windows didn't implement it properly. The last time I tried it something as trivial as changing the screen brightness in tablet mode required you to open the Windows setting if you wanted to be able to use a slider. The quick shortcut was tapping the system clock, then tapping on a setting that would cycle through 20% increments IIRC. Some apps like Bitwig Studio or even some Adobe apps IIRC change the UI depending on whether you are in tablet mode or mouse mode. See this video about Bitwig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grM8exKd7mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grM8exKd7mM
AgloeDreams 7y ago
The 'mouse' support is not meant for use as a mouse according to Apple, it's exclusively meant to be used for accessibility for people who have difficulty in movement (trackball use and such)
Someone1234 7y ago
I've had the iOS 13 beta for several months and am using the mouse support to teach our four year old basic mouse usage. It is a nice compromise, because an iPad is a simpler device for her to navigate and understand than a PC (and has much better parental controls) but this gets her familiar with a PC's peripherals for when we do introduce her to a PC later. The Logitech M535 worked without hassle, and fit her hand well. We combined it with a OMOTON Ultra-Slim keyboard for a full "PC peripherals-like experience." I still feel like mouse support is half baked. Almost like Apple hobbled it on purpose to make sure you KNEW it wasn't the primary way to interact with an iPad. It should be a first class citizen like the keyboard support in my view, with basic settings like auto-hiding the cursor when it isn't connected and cursor configuration (no more giant blob).
reilly3000 7y ago
The whole OS lacks a hover state, and that is a pretty fundamental aspect of mouse UI.

mrpinc 7y ago

The mouse support is supposed to be focused on accessibility for people with disabilities, it's not everyday user focused.

wffurr 7y ago
If it's not good enough for everyday users then it's also not good enough for people with disabilities. Who, I note, also use the device every day and deserve a good experience too.
- herpes 7y ago
  Apple has arguably the highest quality accessibility support in the industry. Have you tried the feature? Because I have and it's very usable. Just not pretty.

ogre_codes 7y ago

Because it's not very good mouse support. It's basically a simulated finger. If they started advertising this, people would rightly criticize it for being mediocre. For the moment anyhow, the iPad is a touch device with an optional virtual finger you can plug into it.

xienze 7y ago
> Because it's not very good mouse support. It's basically a simulated finger. All I want for them to do is allow third party applications to support real mice in the way that you'd expect a real mouse to behave. The killer app would be remote desktop. I understand that there's literally one model of mouse that works with one specific remote desktop app, but I don't want that, I want to use my own mouse.
- MuffinFlavored 7y ago
  I've always thought the idea of programming on an iPad with a keyboard + mouse would be cool, but now it is very apparent that if that idea has any chance of working, it would pretty much be centered around using the iPad solely as a remote desktop tool. I would also imagine the latency that comes with that would be annoying. I wonder if Apple will ever do what Microsoft did with the surface and just put full blown Mac OS on it. I'm going to guess no due to this iPadOS with swipey gestures thing. I'd buy it if they did... I think.
  - ogre_codes 7y ago
    That's basically what the Surface is, and the vast majority of people who own them use them as laptops. At that point, why not just use a laptop? I've done a fair amount of dev work on the iPad, if you have a good SFTP friendly editor like Coda, you can do development work on a remote server, but ultimately you are tied to that server for a build environment. It works fairly well, but since remote shells tend to disconnect in the background it can be frustrating to build stuff.

pier25 7y ago

I think one reason is that it looks half baked. Instead of a cursor you get a blob which simulates a finger. Another reason might be because Apple has been avoiding mixing touch screens with mice. Not sure why. Maybe because Microsoft did it first or maybe because Apple doesn't want to canibalize sales between products. Anyway, a macOS touch laptop would be amazing or an iPad pro runnning an iOS/macOS combo. Sidecar will get us a bit closer to that.

mostlysimilar 7y ago
I've never been convinced about a touchscreen macOS. The quality of the interface in Windows took a nosedive when they started trying to account for both finger-poking and precision cursor use. I would hate to see that happen to macOS. My preference is to let macOS/MacBooks stay keyboard/mouse, and let iPadOS/iPad be the touch device.
- uptown 7y ago
  You may not be convinced, but the generation of younger kids expect every screen to be a touch screen. It's amusing to watch my kids (3 and 5) touch the screen expecting it to react the same way an iPad or iPhone responds.
  - Miraste 7y ago
    All the Windows laptops I use have touchscreens now, and MacBooks have started to feel old-fashioned. I have to stop myself from poking the screen.
- pier25 7y ago
  It's really an implementation problem not a conceptual one. Windows didn't implement it properly. The last time I tried it something as trivial as changing the screen brightness in tablet mode required you to open the Windows setting if you wanted to be able to use a slider. The quick shortcut was tapping the system clock, then tapping on a setting that would cycle through 20% increments IIRC. Some apps like Bitwig Studio or even some Adobe apps IIRC change the UI depending on whether you are in tablet mode or mouse mode. See this video about Bitwig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grM8exKd7mM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grM8exKd7mM

AgloeDreams 7y ago

The 'mouse' support is not meant for use as a mouse according to Apple, it's exclusively meant to be used for accessibility for people who have difficulty in movement (trackball use and such)

Someone1234 7y ago

I've had the iOS 13 beta for several months and am using the mouse support to teach our four year old basic mouse usage. It is a nice compromise, because an iPad is a simpler device for her to navigate and understand than a PC (and has much better parental controls) but this gets her familiar with a PC's peripherals for when we do introduce her to a PC later. The Logitech M535 worked without hassle, and fit her hand well. We combined it with a OMOTON Ultra-Slim keyboard for a full "PC peripherals-like experience." I still feel like mouse support is half baked. Almost like Apple hobbled it on purpose to make sure you KNEW it wasn't the primary way to interact with an iPad. It should be a first class citizen like the keyboard support in my view, with basic settings like auto-hiding the cursor when it isn't connected and cursor configuration (no more giant blob).

reilly3000 7y ago

The whole OS lacks a hover state, and that is a pretty fundamental aspect of mouse UI.