4 ms·

Great article, but I think it misses one key aspect of why monasteries are dying out: the lack of lively church communities which used to encourage dedicated pe

Great article, but I think it misses one key aspect of why monasteries are dying out: the lack of lively church communities which used to encourage dedicated people to join the monastic life. Monasteries don't exist in a vacuum, they have an intricate interdependency with normal parishes of families and, more generally, people "in the world." It should not really be the responsibility of monastics to do public relations to get people to choose this kind of life. A good example is the abbot from the article, he grew up a parish, was an altar server, etc., that made it possible for him to even conceive of this kind of life style--something that is just too big of a chasm for most non-church people nowadays.

twic 7y ago
Wasn't it the case that a lot of second sons became monks because they weren't going to inherit the family title/land/business/farm, and they had to find some way to survive? For the upper classes, monasteries were replaced by militaries, when second sons could go off and have adventures, and perhaps win a fortune of their own. For everyone else, the advent of wage economies did the job.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  And in some cases, the only path to literacy.
- duxup 7y ago
  The impression that I always got was that the church, in some role or another, was it's own high quality occupation. It was a good option that provided education, stability, potentially a source of power, and was a prestigious path to go. I think in modern times we sometimes see the church as this side organization, but in the past it was its own industry of sorts and central to life, economics, education, prestige, potentially power.
- lukebuehler 7y ago
  There were and are many reasons why people became monastics. But to think that the only reasons were inheritance and property laws shows that someone only knows about monasticism from the perspective of modern medieval histories, which tend to present it this way. Not to deny that these reasons existed and made many consider monastic life as an option, but it can't be the whole story. Think about it, monastic life really was and is monastic. It included many hours of prayers and other contemplative practices (and other minor inconveniences like celibacy). Yes, there was great variance in different orders, but many people (if not most) chose this life because they were true believers. The only way to prepare them for this life was that the church as a whole was universally present so that monasticism became just one option between many different ones within the church, albeit a quite intense one.
  - idoubtit 7y ago
    I agree that many people chose to become monks "because they were true believers", but I know two facts that show that religious belief was not the only factor for living in a monastery. First, monks were not the only men to live and work in monasteries. There were many "sub-ranks" (for instance "frère convers" in French, someone that shared most of their life without taking the religious vow) as well as external workers (for centuries, many monasteries had vast domains where monks ruled over peasants, at various degrees). Then, becoming a monk was a social ascension for many. This was still true a few decades ago. My peasant grand-mother had ten children over twenty years, and the only ones who did not stop their studies early, were the three boys who wanted to become priests. The will to study and to change their way of life was a strong incentive. Times changed, and they all found other ways.
- xhkkffbf 7y ago
  And third and fourth sons too. (And later daughters joined convents). But smaller families mean there are no fourth, third and even second sons (or daughters).
BAReF00t 7y ago
You are thinking from a US perspective though. Europe, and especially the east and north, is nearly cured from religion. Cold air and higher education keep people level-headed and reduce the need to invent comforting fantasies to deal with reality. And when people in Germany say they are ”religious“ by German standards, they are not at all actually religious, e.g. by US or Saudi Arabia or Israel standards. It’s merely a cultural residue they were born into. That actually existed way before Abrahamic religions spread to Germany. They only ever enter a church for a birth (sometimes), marriage (often) or death (usually). East Germany is pretty much 100% free of religion. And Berlin is the least religious place in Europe. (Unless you count veganism. ;) We prefer to concern us with things, that are actually observably real and hence useful.
paggle 7y ago
I mean, Christianity has died in Europe. It’s now just a abstruse set of traditions, not a major societal pillar.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I read that Religion got pretty hammered by WWI and WII in Europe. Especially the state religions all in support during WWI. Soldiers came back unwilling to submit to the church that had told them the war was their sacred duty. Because machine guns and artillery don't care about your god.

twic 7y ago

Wasn't it the case that a lot of second sons became monks because they weren't going to inherit the family title/land/business/farm, and they had to find some way to survive? For the upper classes, monasteries were replaced by militaries, when second sons could go off and have adventures, and perhaps win a fortune of their own. For everyone else, the advent of wage economies did the job.

pjmlp 7y ago
And in some cases, the only path to literacy.
duxup 7y ago
The impression that I always got was that the church, in some role or another, was it's own high quality occupation. It was a good option that provided education, stability, potentially a source of power, and was a prestigious path to go. I think in modern times we sometimes see the church as this side organization, but in the past it was its own industry of sorts and central to life, economics, education, prestige, potentially power.
lukebuehler 7y ago
There were and are many reasons why people became monastics. But to think that the only reasons were inheritance and property laws shows that someone only knows about monasticism from the perspective of modern medieval histories, which tend to present it this way. Not to deny that these reasons existed and made many consider monastic life as an option, but it can't be the whole story. Think about it, monastic life really was and is monastic. It included many hours of prayers and other contemplative practices (and other minor inconveniences like celibacy). Yes, there was great variance in different orders, but many people (if not most) chose this life because they were true believers. The only way to prepare them for this life was that the church as a whole was universally present so that monasticism became just one option between many different ones within the church, albeit a quite intense one.
- idoubtit 7y ago
  I agree that many people chose to become monks "because they were true believers", but I know two facts that show that religious belief was not the only factor for living in a monastery. First, monks were not the only men to live and work in monasteries. There were many "sub-ranks" (for instance "frère convers" in French, someone that shared most of their life without taking the religious vow) as well as external workers (for centuries, many monasteries had vast domains where monks ruled over peasants, at various degrees). Then, becoming a monk was a social ascension for many. This was still true a few decades ago. My peasant grand-mother had ten children over twenty years, and the only ones who did not stop their studies early, were the three boys who wanted to become priests. The will to study and to change their way of life was a strong incentive. Times changed, and they all found other ways.
xhkkffbf 7y ago
And third and fourth sons too. (And later daughters joined convents). But smaller families mean there are no fourth, third and even second sons (or daughters).

BAReF00t 7y ago

You are thinking from a US perspective though. Europe, and especially the east and north, is nearly cured from religion. Cold air and higher education keep people level-headed and reduce the need to invent comforting fantasies to deal with reality. And when people in Germany say they are ”religious“ by German standards, they are not at all actually religious, e.g. by US or Saudi Arabia or Israel standards. It’s merely a cultural residue they were born into. That actually existed way before Abrahamic religions spread to Germany. They only ever enter a church for a birth (sometimes), marriage (often) or death (usually). East Germany is pretty much 100% free of religion. And Berlin is the least religious place in Europe. (Unless you count veganism. ;) We prefer to concern us with things, that are actually observably real and hence useful.

paggle 7y ago

I mean, Christianity has died in Europe. It’s now just a abstruse set of traditions, not a major societal pillar.

Gibbon1 7y ago
I read that Religion got pretty hammered by WWI and WII in Europe. Especially the state religions all in support during WWI. Soldiers came back unwilling to submit to the church that had told them the war was their sacred duty. Because machine guns and artillery don't care about your god.