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I suspect it is the regimentation which is what truly killed them when combined with less rigid constraints on thought. There is still a substansial minority wh

I suspect it is the regimentation which is what truly killed them when combined with less rigid constraints on thought. There is still a substansial minority who would happily dedicate themselves to introspection and contemplation but they would prefer a space to follow their own guideance. Why bother with a life of thinking if the conclusions are already foregone? The rigid scheduling is an artifact of agrarianism in a quad-seasoned climate and the calender as it becomes essential to have the time aligned. Likewise in the past not being a farmer itself was essentially a luxury - prison without slavery was only affordable if you had a hostage whose ransom was worth far more. While before they may have been a refugee of sorts for those to devote themselves to study while being socially acceptable and self-supporting. The time for reforms was a century or more ago during industrialization - if they would want survival over purity having known the peril coming. Now I suspect the options are either accept their demise as inevitable but take all latecomers, half-hearted reforms which likely will fail to stop the death spiral or a "Neomonastic" which fundamentally be an imitation of the past by the present out of its context or contains a glimmer of the spirit - such as a collective living of Catholics who may or may not have children, which pools funds to maintain a working class standard of lifestyle but may make more as a result of being composed of mainly college educated professionals such as doctors. Theoretically there may be a Neomonastic sort of movement which emerges on its own in another sphere but if they didn't emerge on their own already why not?

JamesSchriver 7y ago
"Why bother with a life of thinking if the conclusions are already foregone?" is a quite peculiar thing to say considering the state of affairs of today's world where there is literally very little left of chance anymore and you are not in control of your own life, ever increasingly with every passing day as the global ruling class cinches down on humanity more an more through technology, that makes everything more or less a foregone conclusion. What you may want to consider is the reason and fact that why, as the western culture has been infested with the religions and values and spiritual practices of mostly the far east while their take-over is celebrated and cheered on, their domestic equivalents in the monasteries and churches has been utterly vanquished and destroyed and polluted and salted to the point that people like you don't even have a rudimentary understanding for them. Today throngs of gullible women, predatory men, and xenophilic people in general pursue various forms of Hindu spiritual practices called Yoga, while Christian and even other pagan spiritual practices are denigrated and polluted and destroyed as the cultural genocide washes over the western world in an odd kind of suicidal mania. There is no reason why Monasteries could not have been elevated to a cult status like Shaolin Monks, or various Yogis, were it not for the relentless communist subversion tactics that both destroyed and infested the western world with relentless cultural pathogens to destroy the native cultures and elevate cultures that groom people to allegiance with their interests. So much has already been lost by various means to the point that people do not even have any sense whatsoever for the magnitude ... like having no idea just what was lost when the library of Alexandria was burned, even if we have a deep sense that literally centuries worth of knowledge and technologies that probably had to be reinvented decades if not centuries later were lost. In many ways, so humanity is losing massive amounts of knowledge and skill and spirituality through the abdication and abandonment of one's own culture, for a fraudulent propaganda tool farce version of another. It's sad actually, what is will be lost as this craze of communist washes over the western world that has been driving humanity forward for around 3,000+ years ... and doing so with nothing even remotely similar to a suitable replacement. I know that may not make sense to you, but the children of the heirs of what will be left of the western world will have to suffer for it regardless.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  First off "already determined" wasn't about predestination or the future but conclusions for thinking as the exercise. There is so much wrong with that post it isn't funny - putting aside that it looks like the rant of an archtypical Neal Stevenson character on the fence who gets seduced into the service of a regressive ideology doomed to failure. There is even the same failure to accept change and anxiety over growing old in a different world. Culture is a Ship of Theseus, period. Even the staunchist traditionalists fail at it fundamentally from the outset because they either seek to keep stagnant what were reforms in the first place or they seek to preserve that which didn't exist even back then. Nothing makes it through the Millenia untouched. A culture which never changes is best known as a dead one. Do you lament and blame Christianity for destroying paganism? Consider pants barbaric? Consider those from temperate climates too stupid to be civilized? What you either consider that list batshit insane or recognizd the references? Congratulations you have already destroyed a great culture spanning thousands of years already. Except we know these details. Traditions dying out is in no way comparable to losses of archives. The description of modern European languages cultures and clothings even with the tech difference obscured would beconsidered vastly implauisble by Romans. The languages would be like a bad fanfic. Also the communists undermining monks with eastern mysticism before Karl Marx was even born! This ridicule is being charitable for it forgets the Protestant reformation, a reaction to corruption within the Catholic church, and their role in destruction along with cynical nobles looking to seize monk maintained properties. Ones once entrusted to them because the godly celebate were assumed most trustworthy akin to the role of Court Eunuchs among hereditary dynasties but with the emasculation kept symbolic with tonsures. There is a reason for that. While there may are differences they are based on the same. That Western Civilization was considered a separate entity is a flaw. The concept at its best was a post-hoc explanation for rise to colonial dominance that accidentally paints things in in and out groups. At worst it was deliberate. Marx himself demonstrated some nonsensical ideas of the day about "Asiatic Tyranny as being a more controlled society centered around artifical control of irrigation water instead of force of arms". Showing that the exoticism is continuing an old tradition of consciously or unconsciously using the exotic as a mirror to project what ifs onto. It is like Neopaganism in a way - historians are interested in how they were but most practitioners make it fit to their world. You don't see any They were always interconnected beyond any tidy sections or categories on maps. The people of the past sure as fuck didn't consider themselves to have a special kinship over those further abroad - hell pre-nationalism they were likely top enemies. It also explains why the "center of Western Civilization" is all over the place with no remotely consistent metric as it is a sharpshooter's fallacy.

JamesSchriver 7y ago

"Why bother with a life of thinking if the conclusions are already foregone?" is a quite peculiar thing to say considering the state of affairs of today's world where there is literally very little left of chance anymore and you are not in control of your own life, ever increasingly with every passing day as the global ruling class cinches down on humanity more an more through technology, that makes everything more or less a foregone conclusion. What you may want to consider is the reason and fact that why, as the western culture has been infested with the religions and values and spiritual practices of mostly the far east while their take-over is celebrated and cheered on, their domestic equivalents in the monasteries and churches has been utterly vanquished and destroyed and polluted and salted to the point that people like you don't even have a rudimentary understanding for them. Today throngs of gullible women, predatory men, and xenophilic people in general pursue various forms of Hindu spiritual practices called Yoga, while Christian and even other pagan spiritual practices are denigrated and polluted and destroyed as the cultural genocide washes over the western world in an odd kind of suicidal mania. There is no reason why Monasteries could not have been elevated to a cult status like Shaolin Monks, or various Yogis, were it not for the relentless communist subversion tactics that both destroyed and infested the western world with relentless cultural pathogens to destroy the native cultures and elevate cultures that groom people to allegiance with their interests. So much has already been lost by various means to the point that people do not even have any sense whatsoever for the magnitude ... like having no idea just what was lost when the library of Alexandria was burned, even if we have a deep sense that literally centuries worth of knowledge and technologies that probably had to be reinvented decades if not centuries later were lost. In many ways, so humanity is losing massive amounts of knowledge and skill and spirituality through the abdication and abandonment of one's own culture, for a fraudulent propaganda tool farce version of another. It's sad actually, what is will be lost as this craze of communist washes over the western world that has been driving humanity forward for around 3,000+ years ... and doing so with nothing even remotely similar to a suitable replacement. I know that may not make sense to you, but the children of the heirs of what will be left of the western world will have to suffer for it regardless.

Nasrudith 7y ago
First off "already determined" wasn't about predestination or the future but conclusions for thinking as the exercise. There is so much wrong with that post it isn't funny - putting aside that it looks like the rant of an archtypical Neal Stevenson character on the fence who gets seduced into the service of a regressive ideology doomed to failure. There is even the same failure to accept change and anxiety over growing old in a different world. Culture is a Ship of Theseus, period. Even the staunchist traditionalists fail at it fundamentally from the outset because they either seek to keep stagnant what were reforms in the first place or they seek to preserve that which didn't exist even back then. Nothing makes it through the Millenia untouched. A culture which never changes is best known as a dead one. Do you lament and blame Christianity for destroying paganism? Consider pants barbaric? Consider those from temperate climates too stupid to be civilized? What you either consider that list batshit insane or recognizd the references? Congratulations you have already destroyed a great culture spanning thousands of years already. Except we know these details. Traditions dying out is in no way comparable to losses of archives. The description of modern European languages cultures and clothings even with the tech difference obscured would beconsidered vastly implauisble by Romans. The languages would be like a bad fanfic. Also the communists undermining monks with eastern mysticism before Karl Marx was even born! This ridicule is being charitable for it forgets the Protestant reformation, a reaction to corruption within the Catholic church, and their role in destruction along with cynical nobles looking to seize monk maintained properties. Ones once entrusted to them because the godly celebate were assumed most trustworthy akin to the role of Court Eunuchs among hereditary dynasties but with the emasculation kept symbolic with tonsures. There is a reason for that. While there may are differences they are based on the same. That Western Civilization was considered a separate entity is a flaw. The concept at its best was a post-hoc explanation for rise to colonial dominance that accidentally paints things in in and out groups. At worst it was deliberate. Marx himself demonstrated some nonsensical ideas of the day about "Asiatic Tyranny as being a more controlled society centered around artifical control of irrigation water instead of force of arms". Showing that the exoticism is continuing an old tradition of consciously or unconsciously using the exotic as a mirror to project what ifs onto. It is like Neopaganism in a way - historians are interested in how they were but most practitioners make it fit to their world. You don't see any They were always interconnected beyond any tidy sections or categories on maps. The people of the past sure as fuck didn't consider themselves to have a special kinship over those further abroad - hell pre-nationalism they were likely top enemies. It also explains why the "center of Western Civilization" is all over the place with no remotely consistent metric as it is a sharpshooter's fallacy.