7 ms·

Interesting that this is a tech I've wanted for ages, yet with these days of privacy issues where mere mouse behavior can lead to identifying signatures... I'm

Interesting that this is a tech I've wanted for ages, yet with these days of privacy issues where mere mouse behavior can lead to identifying signatures... I'm not letting anyone near my brain patterns. I'll wear a tinfoil hat on this one.. but not knowing what possible behavioral/emotional/matchable patterns might exist in my waves is a bit terrifying. Thanks no thanks Facebook. If there even was a company I'd trust with my brain signature, it's sure as hell not you. edit: I should note, it sounds like this is not specifically brain waves.. but still. My opinion in this arena doesn't change hah.

sambull 7y ago
If it's any consolation, they won't ask you. It will be used against your will; much like a torture method; then when your brain tells them what they need. It will end
- afiori 7y ago
  I am always all in for some good old Facebook bashing, but even I must say that probably won't end this way.
drusepth 7y ago
I imagine this'll take an Oculus route: awesome tech bought by Facebook with an initial "I'm not giving Facebook my data!" backlash, followed by high-quality products that edge more and more into the market by actually being pretty good. Hopefully (or not).
- BOBOTWINSTON 7y ago
  This is still one of the reasons I won't buy one of their headsets. Which sucks because the Quest is really cool, at least PC VR has better options/alternatives.
- wavefunction 7y ago
  Unfortunately Oculus lost me as a potential customer when facebook acquired them. Palmer Luckey's various misadventures reinforce this feeling for me.
- tambourine_man 7y ago
  Oculus is still such a niche product though. Most hardcore gamers I know (not many to be fair) think it's a gimmick. From what I've heard dizziness is still a problem (motion sickness). I for one just want some AR thing I can easily read text on.
  - m12k 7y ago
    The thing about VR is that pretty much anyone that's actually tried it will say it's too compelling to not have some measure of success. I don't think VR/AR/XR will ever be as ubiquitous a platform as smartphones are today (which seems to be what Facebook is banking on, owning the next big computing platform), but it won't go away, and it's not just a gimmick either. It's a new class of experience that we are still figuring out how to even do and produce content for, and which will broaden its appeal as the prices come down - but it still remains to be seen if it'll ever be entirely mainstream either.
    - tambourine_man 7y ago
      Yeah. The smartphone was such huge crazy success that we keep trying to figure what will be next thing. Maybe there won't ever be, at least in our lifetimes, something that compares to it. The Roomba is a successful product, (10% of the market in the US, most sold vacuum clearer). But it's not what we thought the market for robots at home would be. I remember Gates perpetually betting on robotics as the next hit. Same for Apple Watch, not as ubiquitous as a iPhones, but pretty popular. If everything seems like a failure compared to smartphones, maybe we shouldn't use it as a benchmark.
    - jammygit 7y ago
      I’d say it’s too inconvenient atm to be widespread. It takes a whole room away from you and there is a cord tangle. Even with wireless headsets, moving requires teleportation or else a very small play area. Finally, the headsets add weight and setup time, which makes it less fun for long sessions Its here to stay, but the motion problem isn’t solvable in the near future
      - 7y ago
- mark_l_watson 7y ago
  I agree. I actually started using FB again (to a small extent) because I bought an Oculus Go, then an Oculus Quest. The Quest is such a good product and some of the material produced for it is so very good, that it is something I am going to use.
est31 7y ago
Also note that this might not be a one way street. They might use brain machine interfaces to stimulate your brain according to the ads you are watching. E.g. you watch ads for beer and you get the feeling of beer taste on your mouth or you watch ads for bread and you get the smell of freshly baked bread, etc. Or when you are in a store, the implant will give you a serotonin kick when you foveate on a specific product (whose manufacturer paid for that kick). etc. It's creepy af. But 20 years ago when you told someone about the privacy intrusions of smartphones, people would've been creeped out as well so I'm pessimist and saying it will come.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- qnsi 7y ago
  Ctrl labs decode signal from your arm, no brain stimulation yet, but who knows what Facebook wants to do
- state_less 7y ago
  This tech has the potential to distort market forces to a significant degree. Somewhat similar to how cigarettes are harmful to the user, but the user wants to smoke them anyway due to the products impact on the brain. New products may not get investment because the user is hopelessly attached to the old product through some a reward signal hardwired into their brain. On the other hand, learning and studying could feel awesome with such tech. And mind altering substances might not be a requirement. As we get more powerful tech, I think we should work towards ways of bending the tech toward positive outcomes.
  - shredprez 7y ago
    Hopefully folks like yourself have a seat at the table when it comes time to define "positive outcomes."
- fragmede 7y ago
  Okay, Black Mirror. (mind you, I don't think the suspicion is unwarranted, especially when it comes to Facebook.) Optimistically though, targted TMS or some other brain affecting technology, could treat depression, ADHD, schizophrenia, anxiety, autism, or any other number of mental maladies. (To be clear, this is very much in the realm of science fiction, TMS is nowhere near this.)
nathanyz 7y ago
When will we all learn that ad-supported versus paid products are just a variation of the Stanford marshmallow experiment. Free, ad-supported products are all about short term gratification because it costs us nothing today. Instead if we consider the long term when making these choices, then an investment in a paid no tracking product would be a better decision. The problem is that the experiment itself showed the majority chose the short term gratification.
- dontblink 7y ago
  Why is it exactly a better decision? Perhaps for you, but I see no issue with being targeted with ads that may have a higher probability of a conversion. Especially if I make the choice I don't want to pay or vice versa.
  - nathanyz 7y ago
    Fair point. For me I seeing it as ceding control to some other company to decide what products and services I should buy. It's not complete control, but its a persistent influence that even if I know it is happening is hard to resist. Make no mistake that advertising does work even when you are completely aware that it is advertising. I think in my core, freedom of choice is extremely valuable to me and so I tend to resist as much as possible attempts by others to control any amount of that choice for me. Having said that, it means I also respect the choice of others to take the free product because the internal math on their side is different and they see it as the better decision for them. As long as we are all thinking through the decisions, then whatever we each choose is right for us.
    - pickdenis 7y ago
      > Make no mistake that advertising does work even when you are completely aware that it is advertising. This is an interesting claim that I've heard before. Is there some way to measure the subconscious effect of advertising? It feels like a bit of a bogeyman to me.
- edmundsauto 7y ago
goutham2688 7y ago
Neuralink mentioned they are looking at advertisements as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vbh3t7WVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vbh3t7WVI (its somewhere at the end where they answer questions)
- frisco 7y ago
  We said we were not looking at ads and that ads would never be a part of a business model for people with access to our SDK.
- etrautmann 7y ago
  This misrepresents their position - which was that they were patient-first and would NOT be using advertising.
magna7 7y ago
Surveillance capitalism is going to get a lot more scary

sambull 7y ago

If it's any consolation, they won't ask you. It will be used against your will; much like a torture method; then when your brain tells them what they need. It will end

afiori 7y ago
I am always all in for some good old Facebook bashing, but even I must say that probably won't end this way.

drusepth 7y ago

I imagine this'll take an Oculus route: awesome tech bought by Facebook with an initial "I'm not giving Facebook my data!" backlash, followed by high-quality products that edge more and more into the market by actually being pretty good. Hopefully (or not).

BOBOTWINSTON 7y ago
This is still one of the reasons I won't buy one of their headsets. Which sucks because the Quest is really cool, at least PC VR has better options/alternatives.
wavefunction 7y ago
Unfortunately Oculus lost me as a potential customer when facebook acquired them. Palmer Luckey's various misadventures reinforce this feeling for me.
tambourine_man 7y ago
Oculus is still such a niche product though. Most hardcore gamers I know (not many to be fair) think it's a gimmick. From what I've heard dizziness is still a problem (motion sickness). I for one just want some AR thing I can easily read text on.
- m12k 7y ago
  The thing about VR is that pretty much anyone that's actually tried it will say it's too compelling to not have some measure of success. I don't think VR/AR/XR will ever be as ubiquitous a platform as smartphones are today (which seems to be what Facebook is banking on, owning the next big computing platform), but it won't go away, and it's not just a gimmick either. It's a new class of experience that we are still figuring out how to even do and produce content for, and which will broaden its appeal as the prices come down - but it still remains to be seen if it'll ever be entirely mainstream either.
  - tambourine_man 7y ago
    Yeah. The smartphone was such huge crazy success that we keep trying to figure what will be next thing. Maybe there won't ever be, at least in our lifetimes, something that compares to it. The Roomba is a successful product, (10% of the market in the US, most sold vacuum clearer). But it's not what we thought the market for robots at home would be. I remember Gates perpetually betting on robotics as the next hit. Same for Apple Watch, not as ubiquitous as a iPhones, but pretty popular. If everything seems like a failure compared to smartphones, maybe we shouldn't use it as a benchmark.
  - jammygit 7y ago
    I’d say it’s too inconvenient atm to be widespread. It takes a whole room away from you and there is a cord tangle. Even with wireless headsets, moving requires teleportation or else a very small play area. Finally, the headsets add weight and setup time, which makes it less fun for long sessions Its here to stay, but the motion problem isn’t solvable in the near future
    - 7y ago
mark_l_watson 7y ago
I agree. I actually started using FB again (to a small extent) because I bought an Oculus Go, then an Oculus Quest. The Quest is such a good product and some of the material produced for it is so very good, that it is something I am going to use.

est31 7y ago

Also note that this might not be a one way street. They might use brain machine interfaces to stimulate your brain according to the ads you are watching. E.g. you watch ads for beer and you get the feeling of beer taste on your mouth or you watch ads for bread and you get the smell of freshly baked bread, etc. Or when you are in a store, the implant will give you a serotonin kick when you foveate on a specific product (whose manufacturer paid for that kick). etc. It's creepy af. But 20 years ago when you told someone about the privacy intrusions of smartphones, people would've been creeped out as well so I'm pessimist and saying it will come.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
qnsi 7y ago
Ctrl labs decode signal from your arm, no brain stimulation yet, but who knows what Facebook wants to do
state_less 7y ago
This tech has the potential to distort market forces to a significant degree. Somewhat similar to how cigarettes are harmful to the user, but the user wants to smoke them anyway due to the products impact on the brain. New products may not get investment because the user is hopelessly attached to the old product through some a reward signal hardwired into their brain. On the other hand, learning and studying could feel awesome with such tech. And mind altering substances might not be a requirement. As we get more powerful tech, I think we should work towards ways of bending the tech toward positive outcomes.
- shredprez 7y ago
  Hopefully folks like yourself have a seat at the table when it comes time to define "positive outcomes."
fragmede 7y ago
Okay, Black Mirror. (mind you, I don't think the suspicion is unwarranted, especially when it comes to Facebook.) Optimistically though, targted TMS or some other brain affecting technology, could treat depression, ADHD, schizophrenia, anxiety, autism, or any other number of mental maladies. (To be clear, this is very much in the realm of science fiction, TMS is nowhere near this.)

nathanyz 7y ago

When will we all learn that ad-supported versus paid products are just a variation of the Stanford marshmallow experiment. Free, ad-supported products are all about short term gratification because it costs us nothing today. Instead if we consider the long term when making these choices, then an investment in a paid no tracking product would be a better decision. The problem is that the experiment itself showed the majority chose the short term gratification.

dontblink 7y ago
Why is it exactly a better decision? Perhaps for you, but I see no issue with being targeted with ads that may have a higher probability of a conversion. Especially if I make the choice I don't want to pay or vice versa.
- nathanyz 7y ago
  Fair point. For me I seeing it as ceding control to some other company to decide what products and services I should buy. It's not complete control, but its a persistent influence that even if I know it is happening is hard to resist. Make no mistake that advertising does work even when you are completely aware that it is advertising. I think in my core, freedom of choice is extremely valuable to me and so I tend to resist as much as possible attempts by others to control any amount of that choice for me. Having said that, it means I also respect the choice of others to take the free product because the internal math on their side is different and they see it as the better decision for them. As long as we are all thinking through the decisions, then whatever we each choose is right for us.
  - pickdenis 7y ago
    > Make no mistake that advertising does work even when you are completely aware that it is advertising. This is an interesting claim that I've heard before. Is there some way to measure the subconscious effect of advertising? It feels like a bit of a bogeyman to me.
edmundsauto 7y ago

goutham2688 7y ago

Neuralink mentioned they are looking at advertisements as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vbh3t7WVI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-vbh3t7WVI (its somewhere at the end where they answer questions)

frisco 7y ago
We said we were not looking at ads and that ads would never be a part of a business model for people with access to our SDK.
etrautmann 7y ago
This misrepresents their position - which was that they were patient-first and would NOT be using advertising.

magna7 7y ago

Surveillance capitalism is going to get a lot more scary