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I agree that it's perfectly fine to block ads. And that ad blockers' primary feature is blocking ads. At the same time, I think most ads aren't malicious. They

I agree that it's perfectly fine to block ads. And that ad blockers' primary feature is blocking ads. At the same time, I think most ads aren't malicious. They aren't "intending to do harm". Ads sell things. Sometimes things people want. I'd guess that most people who use ad blockers just don't like being sold things.

jordanpg 7y ago
I choose to define "unsolicited attempts to take my attention away from things I care about" as harm. I am happy to be sold things, on my own terms. I don't need ads to find out about things to buy.
- j4kp07 7y ago
  You can't get much weaker and softer than this right here. I'm just trying to imagine the PTSD you must experience when faced with billboards on the highway or when you attend a sporting/musical event and see BoA plastered around the venue. Also, it's not "unsolicited" when you made the choice to turn on the radio and turn up the volume. If you don't like the ads, turn the radio off. > I am happy to be sold things, on my own terms. I'm pretty sure everyone is happy with everything, when they define their own terms.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > I'm just trying to imagine the PTSD you must experience when faced with billboards on the highway or when you attend a sporting/musical event and see BoA plastered around the venue. GP isn't getting PTSD, but ads here are like mosquitos. A few here and there you won't notice, but once there's lots of them buzzing around and biting, the quality of life goes down very quick. As for unsolicited - they are. They are a malicious third party injecting itself where it isn't welcome. Also, be it TV or radio, ads weren't supposed to be there. This is where the infectious nature of advertising shows. They came and took over these media, and dragged their quality down.
  - Cub3 7y ago
    > when faced with billboards on the highway I've always had a problem with this, who thought it was a good idea to allow large colourful structures literally designed to capture the attention of people operating heavy machinery next to places where they are travelling at high speeds?
  - fredsanford 7y ago
    The PTSD thing was at best rude, so that leaves me wondering... Which advertising relaated business are you in?
  - coryfklein 7y ago
    > If you don't like the ads, turn the radio off. This is pretty much exactly what the OP project does.
throwaway2048 7y ago
The point of ads is to create demand where none existed, as much as adtech people want to pretend thats merely via informing people of all these wonderful products they were previously unaware of (which I admit, does happen), the vast majority of advertising is trying to convince you to buy useless shit you don't need, or even worse, stuff that actively harms you. (these are the most profitable things, thus the most profitable things to advertise). They do this by preying on insecurities and making you feel less valuable and incomplete. Another tactic is either outright lying about the product, or constructing statements where a reasonable person would "fill in the gaps" to produce the lie they intend, even if they don't explicitly state it. Closely study some ads sometimes, they are incredibly psychologically manipulative. This is before such considerations as privacy, tracking and data leaks with online advertisement, and the general idea that advertising is a zero sum game, and the only way to "beat" your competitor at it is to blow even more money on it, thus its a massive economic inefficiency, advertising doesn't create value, it merely shifts it around. While advertisement is rarely actively malicious in a targeted way, they are a systematic evil much like pollution, everyone would be better off if it didn't exist in the first place.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > Closely study some ads sometimes, they are incredibly psychologically manipulative. Also, study the 101 of the domain. Like the famous Cialdini's book Influence: Science and Practice, or Cliff Ennico's How To Sell Anything To Anybody talks. Moral bankrupcy is in the very DNA of the practice, so no surprise that most ads just reflect this.
  - tantalor 7y ago
    > Moral bankrupcy (sic) Ironic you'd bring up ethics in a discussion of ad blockers. Considering how radio & podcasts depend on sponsorship, isn't it unethical to remove ads that pay for the content? Effectively it is stealing. https://current.org/2019/09/podcast-sponsorship-revenues-continue-to-fuel-nprs-financial-growth/ https://current.org/2019/09/podcast-sponsorship-revenues-con...
    - 7y ago
TeMPOraL 7y ago
> Ads sell things. Sometimes things people want. You've captured my issue right in this place. Ads sometimes sell things people want. All the other times are what I consider doing harm.
- cwkoss 7y ago
  Further, if you buy a product that was advertised, you are paying for an unwanted service. The price of the product must be higher than the product is worth in order to fund the ad campaign.
cwkoss 7y ago
Advertisements are a form of adversarial thought control. Absolutely malicious.
madisfun 7y ago
Sometimes. It's not a good defence of a thing, if it is good only sometimes and only for some people. By implication it's not good for the others.

jordanpg 7y ago

I choose to define "unsolicited attempts to take my attention away from things I care about" as harm. I am happy to be sold things, on my own terms. I don't need ads to find out about things to buy.

j4kp07 7y ago
You can't get much weaker and softer than this right here. I'm just trying to imagine the PTSD you must experience when faced with billboards on the highway or when you attend a sporting/musical event and see BoA plastered around the venue. Also, it's not "unsolicited" when you made the choice to turn on the radio and turn up the volume. If you don't like the ads, turn the radio off. > I am happy to be sold things, on my own terms. I'm pretty sure everyone is happy with everything, when they define their own terms.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  > I'm just trying to imagine the PTSD you must experience when faced with billboards on the highway or when you attend a sporting/musical event and see BoA plastered around the venue. GP isn't getting PTSD, but ads here are like mosquitos. A few here and there you won't notice, but once there's lots of them buzzing around and biting, the quality of life goes down very quick. As for unsolicited - they are. They are a malicious third party injecting itself where it isn't welcome. Also, be it TV or radio, ads weren't supposed to be there. This is where the infectious nature of advertising shows. They came and took over these media, and dragged their quality down.
- Cub3 7y ago
  > when faced with billboards on the highway I've always had a problem with this, who thought it was a good idea to allow large colourful structures literally designed to capture the attention of people operating heavy machinery next to places where they are travelling at high speeds?
- fredsanford 7y ago
  The PTSD thing was at best rude, so that leaves me wondering... Which advertising relaated business are you in?
- coryfklein 7y ago
  > If you don't like the ads, turn the radio off. This is pretty much exactly what the OP project does.

throwaway2048 7y ago

The point of ads is to create demand where none existed, as much as adtech people want to pretend thats merely via informing people of all these wonderful products they were previously unaware of (which I admit, does happen), the vast majority of advertising is trying to convince you to buy useless shit you don't need, or even worse, stuff that actively harms you. (these are the most profitable things, thus the most profitable things to advertise). They do this by preying on insecurities and making you feel less valuable and incomplete. Another tactic is either outright lying about the product, or constructing statements where a reasonable person would "fill in the gaps" to produce the lie they intend, even if they don't explicitly state it. Closely study some ads sometimes, they are incredibly psychologically manipulative. This is before such considerations as privacy, tracking and data leaks with online advertisement, and the general idea that advertising is a zero sum game, and the only way to "beat" your competitor at it is to blow even more money on it, thus its a massive economic inefficiency, advertising doesn't create value, it merely shifts it around. While advertisement is rarely actively malicious in a targeted way, they are a systematic evil much like pollution, everyone would be better off if it didn't exist in the first place.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
> Closely study some ads sometimes, they are incredibly psychologically manipulative. Also, study the 101 of the domain. Like the famous Cialdini's book Influence: Science and Practice, or Cliff Ennico's How To Sell Anything To Anybody talks. Moral bankrupcy is in the very DNA of the practice, so no surprise that most ads just reflect this.
- tantalor 7y ago
  > Moral bankrupcy (sic) Ironic you'd bring up ethics in a discussion of ad blockers. Considering how radio & podcasts depend on sponsorship, isn't it unethical to remove ads that pay for the content? Effectively it is stealing. https://current.org/2019/09/podcast-sponsorship-revenues-continue-to-fuel-nprs-financial-growth/ https://current.org/2019/09/podcast-sponsorship-revenues-con...
  - 7y ago

TeMPOraL 7y ago

> Ads sell things. Sometimes things people want. You've captured my issue right in this place. Ads sometimes sell things people want. All the other times are what I consider doing harm.

cwkoss 7y ago
Further, if you buy a product that was advertised, you are paying for an unwanted service. The price of the product must be higher than the product is worth in order to fund the ad campaign.

cwkoss 7y ago

Advertisements are a form of adversarial thought control. Absolutely malicious.

madisfun 7y ago

Sometimes. It's not a good defence of a thing, if it is good only sometimes and only for some people. By implication it's not good for the others.