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Plus there is growing consensus that God cannot exist.

YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
Why address such a comment to someone who has made clear they believe in the existence of God? There is no reason to provoke peoples' religious beliefs.
- conjectures 7y ago
  Surely because the thread is about people wondering, 'why are monasteries declining?' A substantial reduction in religious belief could explain away a large part of monastic decline.
  - baud147258 7y ago
    Yes and I addressed it in my comment: "the decline of religion/religious practice "
dr_dshiv 7y ago
Can I try to convert you? Great! Thanks for your implied consent. Here goes: The "One" god of Christianity comes more from Neoplatonism than Judaism. The Neoplatonic Oneness, which was washed out in various times in Christian history, is fully commensurable with contemporary science. Oneness can be experienced as the common mystical experience of "we are all one, man!" But for Neoplatonists, it only made sense that the ineffable and impossible to fully understand "One" was the origin of the universe and the basis of divinity. This notion of Oneness is different from typical conceptions of the one god as a person. It is not. To understand true, original Christianity, one must reject the idea of personhood -- god isn't a person (and actually, neither are we--it's just a useful illusion) In a nutshell: in the beginning of time, there was the Oneness and the emanation from the Oneness, which was known as the Logos. It makes sense here to think big bang: the whole universe in a single point. But from there, the emanations, the logos built everything else. The emanations can return to the Oneness through the creation of new wholes and harmonies (think molecules, stars and solar systems -- onenesses made of parts). This wholeness/harmony is the source of divine goodness. Here's the Christian part: when a person believes in the Logos they have eternal life because they recognize that their life is part of the eternal Logos. That's what Christianity was to early church fathers like Origen or Clement. I forgot to mention -- Jesus was described as the incarnation of the logos. Fun fact: Logos is equivalent to "Dao" in Daoism. So, How'd I do? Are you more open now to the mysteries of Christianity?
- someonenice 7y ago
  "... individual soul (called Atman) is not different from Ultimate Reality (called Brahman). He also taught that there is only one essential principle called Brahman and everything else is a kind of expression of that one Brahman..... " https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta
- mcv 7y ago
  This is very much Gospel of John. Other gospels are less into this Logos stuff, but John clearly loved it.
- cyxxon 7y ago
  As an atheist, I really liked your comment, and yes, I am more open to what you wrote, but... I am not one bit more open towards the Religion, because that is as far removed from what you wrote here as it is possible, I think.
  - dr_dshiv 7y ago
    Nice! Success. I too am an atheist of person gods. This ineffable oneness of the universe, though... It's got me intrigued. It's not a person. It's like, I'd imagine that most alien civilisations would have at some point a spiritual belief system aligned to it. And, I'd argue that it hits at the core of Christianity -- and holds some hope for its future. Like, wouldn't it be nice if Christianity could somehow evolve? It's not hard, either. They just have to reject the idea that the Bible was written by God, which is farcical on the face of it. Then religion is about allegory, cultural traditions and having something to do with your kids on Sunday morning.
    - drak0n1c 7y ago
      I'm sure you're also a fan of Baruch Spinoza then - he was expelled from his Jewish community for having very similar thoughts about God, however he never converted to Christianity. His books were also put on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Catholic Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza
bigYahnz 7y ago
God cannot exist. Everything that exists just popped into existence. Mmmmhhhhmmmm. More diversity, please!!
gmoot 7y ago
"cannot" is such a high bar. This must be incorrect. But religion is indeed in decline in the West. Whether or not this is an argument against God's existence is more questionable.

Why address such a comment to someone who has made clear they believe in the existence of God? There is no reason to provoke peoples' religious beliefs.

conjectures 7y ago
Surely because the thread is about people wondering, 'why are monasteries declining?' A substantial reduction in religious belief could explain away a large part of monastic decline.
- baud147258 7y ago
  Yes and I addressed it in my comment: "the decline of religion/religious practice "

dr_dshiv 7y ago

Can I try to convert you? Great! Thanks for your implied consent. Here goes: The "One" god of Christianity comes more from Neoplatonism than Judaism. The Neoplatonic Oneness, which was washed out in various times in Christian history, is fully commensurable with contemporary science. Oneness can be experienced as the common mystical experience of "we are all one, man!" But for Neoplatonists, it only made sense that the ineffable and impossible to fully understand "One" was the origin of the universe and the basis of divinity. This notion of Oneness is different from typical conceptions of the one god as a person. It is not. To understand true, original Christianity, one must reject the idea of personhood -- god isn't a person (and actually, neither are we--it's just a useful illusion) In a nutshell: in the beginning of time, there was the Oneness and the emanation from the Oneness, which was known as the Logos. It makes sense here to think big bang: the whole universe in a single point. But from there, the emanations, the logos built everything else. The emanations can return to the Oneness through the creation of new wholes and harmonies (think molecules, stars and solar systems -- onenesses made of parts). This wholeness/harmony is the source of divine goodness. Here's the Christian part: when a person believes in the Logos they have eternal life because they recognize that their life is part of the eternal Logos. That's what Christianity was to early church fathers like Origen or Clement. I forgot to mention -- Jesus was described as the incarnation of the logos. Fun fact: Logos is equivalent to "Dao" in Daoism. So, How'd I do? Are you more open now to the mysteries of Christianity?

someonenice 7y ago
"... individual soul (called Atman) is not different from Ultimate Reality (called Brahman). He also taught that there is only one essential principle called Brahman and everything else is a kind of expression of that one Brahman..... " https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta
mcv 7y ago
This is very much Gospel of John. Other gospels are less into this Logos stuff, but John clearly loved it.
cyxxon 7y ago
As an atheist, I really liked your comment, and yes, I am more open to what you wrote, but... I am not one bit more open towards the Religion, because that is as far removed from what you wrote here as it is possible, I think.
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  Nice! Success. I too am an atheist of person gods. This ineffable oneness of the universe, though... It's got me intrigued. It's not a person. It's like, I'd imagine that most alien civilisations would have at some point a spiritual belief system aligned to it. And, I'd argue that it hits at the core of Christianity -- and holds some hope for its future. Like, wouldn't it be nice if Christianity could somehow evolve? It's not hard, either. They just have to reject the idea that the Bible was written by God, which is farcical on the face of it. Then religion is about allegory, cultural traditions and having something to do with your kids on Sunday morning.
  - drak0n1c 7y ago
    I'm sure you're also a fan of Baruch Spinoza then - he was expelled from his Jewish community for having very similar thoughts about God, however he never converted to Christianity. His books were also put on the Index of Forbidden Books by the Catholic Church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza

bigYahnz 7y ago

God cannot exist. Everything that exists just popped into existence. Mmmmhhhhmmmm. More diversity, please!!

gmoot 7y ago

"cannot" is such a high bar. This must be incorrect. But religion is indeed in decline in the West. Whether or not this is an argument against God's existence is more questionable.