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Nobody wants that throne. Theresa was no better. Jeremy is doing his best to stay away from the shitshow. A no-deal brexit seems like the sane thing to do. The

Nobody wants that throne. Theresa was no better. Jeremy is doing his best to stay away from the shitshow. A no-deal brexit seems like the sane thing to do. The economist M.Blyth has said that best: Jeremy doesnt want an election , he wants to watch the tories tear down themselves to pieces.

celticninja 7y ago
Do you mean insane?
- buboard 7y ago
  sane. The individual deals can be negotiated over time. Repeatedly delaying it and expecting different outcome is the definition of insanity.
  - celticninja 7y ago
    Or you know, we have another referendum, with some clear choices. Stay or Leave If (Leave ==true) With deal or With no deal That way we get to make a proper decision,with what we have now and didn't have before the referendum, a much more informed electorate.
    - buboard 7y ago
      If (as it seems) brexit is still the prefered option, polls show the no-deal option is highly supported https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893
      - celticninja 7y ago
        Brexit is the preferred option for some Tory MPs and for some of the electorate. The link you provided shows the largest group (44%) oppose leaving with No Deal.
        buboard 7y ago
        > However, a different story emerges among Leave voters. The proportion who say that leaving without a deal would be a good outcome is 46%. This is well below the 73% who say they back leaving the EU without a deal, when offered a straight choice. which is what matters if brexit is still the majority position.
        mytailorisrich 7y ago
        The majority of Labour-voting people in the North of England is in favour of Brexit.
        pmyteh 7y ago
        The majority of people in many Labour supporting seats in the North of England are in favour of Brexit. The majority of people who actually voted Labour in those seats are not. That's a subtle distinction, but it's hugely important to Labour's political decision-making.
        mytailorisrich 7y ago
        Many Labour supporters in those areas and the far left currently in control of the party do support Brexit. Even Corbyn is a life-long Brexiter. This is the very reason Labour is struggling to set out a clear policy on this issue: It is impossible to satisfy their supporters in London and their supporters in the North at the same time but they need to in order to hope to win a general election. A very telling example: Bolsover. 71% voted leave. MP is the infamous hard left Labour Dennis Skinner (MP there since 1970!), who is a Brexiter.
        pmyteh 7y ago
        Some do, but not the majority (in the leadership or the party). And the party activists (even the leftwing ones) are overwhelmingly remain. That's one of the reasons the votes at the party conference yesterday were so interesting: it was simultaneously a vote on Brexit policy (where most of the members are more remain than the NEC position) and a vote of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn (where most of the members are more supportive than the NEC!) It's not so much that Labour is finding it difficult to satisfy their supporters in different parts of the country (though that's a small sub-game), it's that MPs in leave seats fear that not leaving will turn over large chunks of the anti-system vote to the Brexit party. Both Bolsover and Skinner are hardcore leavers, though, that much is true. That doesn't change that the Labour membership is overwhelmingly remain, Labour voters are majority remain, and the majority of the leave vote was in Conservative parts of the south, not Labour parts of the North.
  - pjc50 7y ago
    We need to eat in the meantime. Or are you just going to dismiss Yellowhammer as propaganda?
    - tomatocracy 7y ago
      Yellowhammer documents did not say there would be a shortage of food overall. They said there may be shortages of certain foods. That’s very different.
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    Your point of view is interesting, but one I don't really share. Either way, what I don't really understand is that the government didn't really seem to try to get a deal for the first 2 years. EU officials have practically told off the UK government for "wasting time". Precisely because you have a different viewpoint that mine, I'm interested in your take on it. Do you think that a no-deal Brexit was the unspoken goal all along, or was there something else going on? Personally, I almost got the impression that May was actually torpedoing the process as it seemed pretty clear early on that a deal was never in the works. I've had a hard time making sense of it.
    - buboard 7y ago
      I dont have an opinion on that, i m not from the UK. But it's how things look from the EU. Perhaps the shock of a no-deal brexit will actually inspire some more unity in the UK.
      - tehbeard 7y ago
        > ...inspire some more unity in the UK Better odds on IndyRef2 and re-unification of the Irish than that.
    - jacobush 7y ago
      I smelled grandstanding before her ranks of supporters, more than actually trying to make a deal of some sort. But what do I know, I only look from a few countries over.

celticninja 7y ago

Do you mean insane?

buboard 7y ago
sane. The individual deals can be negotiated over time. Repeatedly delaying it and expecting different outcome is the definition of insanity.
- celticninja 7y ago
  Or you know, we have another referendum, with some clear choices. Stay or Leave If (Leave ==true) With deal or With no deal That way we get to make a proper decision,with what we have now and didn't have before the referendum, a much more informed electorate.
  - buboard 7y ago
    If (as it seems) brexit is still the prefered option, polls show the no-deal option is highly supported https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49551893
    - celticninja 7y ago
      Brexit is the preferred option for some Tory MPs and for some of the electorate. The link you provided shows the largest group (44%) oppose leaving with No Deal.
      - buboard 7y ago
        > However, a different story emerges among Leave voters. The proportion who say that leaving without a deal would be a good outcome is 46%. This is well below the 73% who say they back leaving the EU without a deal, when offered a straight choice. which is what matters if brexit is still the majority position.
      - mytailorisrich 7y ago
        The majority of Labour-voting people in the North of England is in favour of Brexit.
        pmyteh 7y ago
        The majority of people in many Labour supporting seats in the North of England are in favour of Brexit. The majority of people who actually voted Labour in those seats are not. That's a subtle distinction, but it's hugely important to Labour's political decision-making.
        mytailorisrich 7y ago
        Many Labour supporters in those areas and the far left currently in control of the party do support Brexit. Even Corbyn is a life-long Brexiter. This is the very reason Labour is struggling to set out a clear policy on this issue: It is impossible to satisfy their supporters in London and their supporters in the North at the same time but they need to in order to hope to win a general election. A very telling example: Bolsover. 71% voted leave. MP is the infamous hard left Labour Dennis Skinner (MP there since 1970!), who is a Brexiter.
        pmyteh 7y ago
        Some do, but not the majority (in the leadership or the party). And the party activists (even the leftwing ones) are overwhelmingly remain. That's one of the reasons the votes at the party conference yesterday were so interesting: it was simultaneously a vote on Brexit policy (where most of the members are more remain than the NEC position) and a vote of confidence in Jeremy Corbyn (where most of the members are more supportive than the NEC!) It's not so much that Labour is finding it difficult to satisfy their supporters in different parts of the country (though that's a small sub-game), it's that MPs in leave seats fear that not leaving will turn over large chunks of the anti-system vote to the Brexit party. Both Bolsover and Skinner are hardcore leavers, though, that much is true. That doesn't change that the Labour membership is overwhelmingly remain, Labour voters are majority remain, and the majority of the leave vote was in Conservative parts of the south, not Labour parts of the North.
- pjc50 7y ago
  We need to eat in the meantime. Or are you just going to dismiss Yellowhammer as propaganda?
  - tomatocracy 7y ago
    Yellowhammer documents did not say there would be a shortage of food overall. They said there may be shortages of certain foods. That’s very different.
- mikekchar 7y ago
  Your point of view is interesting, but one I don't really share. Either way, what I don't really understand is that the government didn't really seem to try to get a deal for the first 2 years. EU officials have practically told off the UK government for "wasting time". Precisely because you have a different viewpoint that mine, I'm interested in your take on it. Do you think that a no-deal Brexit was the unspoken goal all along, or was there something else going on? Personally, I almost got the impression that May was actually torpedoing the process as it seemed pretty clear early on that a deal was never in the works. I've had a hard time making sense of it.
  - buboard 7y ago
    I dont have an opinion on that, i m not from the UK. But it's how things look from the EU. Perhaps the shock of a no-deal brexit will actually inspire some more unity in the UK.
    - tehbeard 7y ago
      > ...inspire some more unity in the UK Better odds on IndyRef2 and re-unification of the Irish than that.
  - jacobush 7y ago
    I smelled grandstanding before her ranks of supporters, more than actually trying to make a deal of some sort. But what do I know, I only look from a few countries over.