5 ms·

That makes sense. Here in Germany, if you go to a church on easter, christmas, etc. you'd be surprised that most of the people in church are Polish immigrants a

That makes sense. Here in Germany, if you go to a church on easter, christmas, etc. you'd be surprised that most of the people in church are Polish immigrants and their German children. I don't know why, but Polish people are the most religious community I know here.

gambiting 7y ago
Because Poland has a long and complicated history with the Catholic church. For a lot of people, the Catholic Church represented the only oasis of freedom during the communist rule after WW2 and before 1989, and can be credited with accelerating the end of communism in Poland, especially with a Polish pope being elected merely a decade earlier. Nowadays though I would call it what it is - it's cancer growing unchecked on the Polish state. And I don't mean the religion - I mean the Catholic Church of Poland is constantly meddling in Politics, influencing new policies, Polish bishops are almost celebrities with a huge amount of wealth, the church does not pay taxes, they are one of the largest land owners in Poland....it's a frightening insitution that only seems to be growing in strength, you'd think young people would turn away from it, but with the current right-wing government literally saying that those who don't defend the church are not real Poles it's quite obvious what the party line is - either you are with the church or you are not welcome.
- krychu 7y ago
  Church is also the community of people coming together, it’s nuns and priests going on missions to countries in need, it’s priests doing Sunday service for people who believe. Have you excluded these from your definition of Church or do you think these are also cancer?
  - pluma 7y ago
    That's religion, not church. Church is an institution. The Catholic church (and apparently particularly the Polish chapter of it) is rotten to its core. That there are good or oblivious people working for it doesn't invalidate that.
    - dagw 7y ago
      There is also the important distinction between a church and The Church. The Church (which I agree is rotten) has very little to do with the day to day running of any given church. We're almost at a point where individual churches are trying to isolate themselves from The Church.
      - pluma 7y ago
        Hah, I'm amazed my comment got flagged. The article is literally about _the German Catholic Church_ and we're talking about _the Polish Catholic Church_, which are both formal organisations. I know Americans have more "churches" than people but in Europe local church communities are normally organised in larger, formal structures. In the case of the German and Polish Catholic Churches, they're even under direct control of the Vatican, i.e. the Catholic Church proper. Yes, your local community may be good and if it's an independent church like most religious groups in the US are, it may be completely removed from any greater politics but Catholic churches are very much part of the Catholic Church proper (i.e. if a priest steps out of line, they risk being removed -- which btw is exactly what happened when a Catholic priest in Germany in the 1990s openly preached views that the Church considered too progressive). A small religious community may hold okay views and be nice and dandy, but organised religion (and especially the Catholic Church) is rotten to the core. And I say that as a baptised & confirmed Catholic in Germany.
    - krychu 7y ago
      < Church is an institution. This is incorrect. Its original meaning is "assembly", "meeting" and refers to a group of people more than a building/denomination/organization: https://www.compellingtruth.org/definition-church.html https://www.compellingtruth.org/definition-church.html.
      - magduf 7y ago
        Wrong. The original meaning of a word is irrelevant. The definition of a word in the English language is whatever people currently use it for.
badpun 7y ago
> I don't know why, but Polish people are the most religious community I know here. Historical reasons basically. For the most part of the past 200 years, Poles lacked their own independent country (first it was partitioned in 1795 by Russia, Prussia and Austria, then it gained indepenence in 1918 only to be again conquered by Soviet Union in 1945). During that time, Church and faith were one of the primary allowed (or at least tolerated by the occupants) expression of one's identity as a Pole - people were singing partiotic songs during masses, priests were leaders of the nationalist opposition (and frequently murdered for that) etc. Hence, historically Catholic Church means much more to Poles than to most other nations.

gambiting 7y ago

Because Poland has a long and complicated history with the Catholic church. For a lot of people, the Catholic Church represented the only oasis of freedom during the communist rule after WW2 and before 1989, and can be credited with accelerating the end of communism in Poland, especially with a Polish pope being elected merely a decade earlier. Nowadays though I would call it what it is - it's cancer growing unchecked on the Polish state. And I don't mean the religion - I mean the Catholic Church of Poland is constantly meddling in Politics, influencing new policies, Polish bishops are almost celebrities with a huge amount of wealth, the church does not pay taxes, they are one of the largest land owners in Poland....it's a frightening insitution that only seems to be growing in strength, you'd think young people would turn away from it, but with the current right-wing government literally saying that those who don't defend the church are not real Poles it's quite obvious what the party line is - either you are with the church or you are not welcome.

krychu 7y ago
Church is also the community of people coming together, it’s nuns and priests going on missions to countries in need, it’s priests doing Sunday service for people who believe. Have you excluded these from your definition of Church or do you think these are also cancer?
- pluma 7y ago
  That's religion, not church. Church is an institution. The Catholic church (and apparently particularly the Polish chapter of it) is rotten to its core. That there are good or oblivious people working for it doesn't invalidate that.
  - dagw 7y ago
    There is also the important distinction between a church and The Church. The Church (which I agree is rotten) has very little to do with the day to day running of any given church. We're almost at a point where individual churches are trying to isolate themselves from The Church.
    - pluma 7y ago
      Hah, I'm amazed my comment got flagged. The article is literally about _the German Catholic Church_ and we're talking about _the Polish Catholic Church_, which are both formal organisations. I know Americans have more "churches" than people but in Europe local church communities are normally organised in larger, formal structures. In the case of the German and Polish Catholic Churches, they're even under direct control of the Vatican, i.e. the Catholic Church proper. Yes, your local community may be good and if it's an independent church like most religious groups in the US are, it may be completely removed from any greater politics but Catholic churches are very much part of the Catholic Church proper (i.e. if a priest steps out of line, they risk being removed -- which btw is exactly what happened when a Catholic priest in Germany in the 1990s openly preached views that the Church considered too progressive). A small religious community may hold okay views and be nice and dandy, but organised religion (and especially the Catholic Church) is rotten to the core. And I say that as a baptised & confirmed Catholic in Germany.
  - krychu 7y ago
    < Church is an institution. This is incorrect. Its original meaning is "assembly", "meeting" and refers to a group of people more than a building/denomination/organization: https://www.compellingtruth.org/definition-church.html https://www.compellingtruth.org/definition-church.html.
    - magduf 7y ago
      Wrong. The original meaning of a word is irrelevant. The definition of a word in the English language is whatever people currently use it for.

badpun 7y ago

> I don't know why, but Polish people are the most religious community I know here. Historical reasons basically. For the most part of the past 200 years, Poles lacked their own independent country (first it was partitioned in 1795 by Russia, Prussia and Austria, then it gained indepenence in 1918 only to be again conquered by Soviet Union in 1945). During that time, Church and faith were one of the primary allowed (or at least tolerated by the occupants) expression of one's identity as a Pole - people were singing partiotic songs during masses, priests were leaders of the nationalist opposition (and frequently murdered for that) etc. Hence, historically Catholic Church means much more to Poles than to most other nations.