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Just another article of predicting that China is going to collapse -- these kind of articles have been popping up since 1991. China is just another big country

Just another article of predicting that China is going to collapse -- these kind of articles have been popping up since 1991. China is just another big country with a lot of problems. So is US. Even if China is really going to collapse, what is in it for average people in the US or other countries? To prove that the democracy you believe is correct -- even if that means nearly all the people in the world will suffer from economic slowdown?

NicoJuicy 7y ago
China made it personal ( for me) messing with democracy and the EU through the sham "16+1". Which is not meant to break the EU's democracy and getting more votes. Nothing else. I wish Hong Kong and Taiwan the very best, even this far away China is overreaching it's influence. They shouldn't be surprised that they have lost all sympathy from a lot of westerners. Before I forget, if you try to loan halve of the world money ( there are no real investments from China), you are not a developing country and shouldn't abuse our help. There is also no way that Alibaba would have gotten that big without being a developed country and the Postal Union financial assistance. We basically financed it.
- cdmckay 7y ago
  So China is bad because they invested in eastern EU countries?
  - SubiculumCode 7y ago
    Chinese apologist.
  - NicoJuicy 7y ago
    It's not investing :D Everyone can see that, it's loans and you get a cheaper loan when you use Chinese workers. It's also shell companies, that do nothing ( from a research of the Netherlands) It's a scam
laughinghan 7y ago
Why 1991? Surely such articles predate 1991. I'm not sure why you think writers at Bloomberg, a Wall Street-oriented outlet, represent average people in the US. I'm also not sure why you think anyone would want China to collapse in order to "prove democracy correct", as if to win a bet. Democracy is a means to an end. "Average people" think that in China, though many people are doing great under the current system, there are also people not doing great, average people just like them, who are being oppressed, harassed for reading banned books, punished for criticizing party officials, put into re-education labor camps, even having their organs harvested, and they want that to stop. If China stopped all that tomorrow without collapsing, most people would be ecstatic about that. But they won't, and average people believe the best way to permanently stop that kind of thing is for everyone to get a voice and a vote in their government—indeed, for a hundred flowers to bloom, or 百花齐放, if you will.
- franklingu 7y ago
  > who are being oppressed, harassed for reading banned books, punished for criticizing party officials, put into re-education labor camps, even having their organs harvested Apparently I do not believe this is happening in China and you do. Maybe I am brainwashed by Chinese government or you are affected by all those western media. Anyway, Chinese government cares not so much about what western media says -- they have been saying that China is going to collapse for so many years. Instead, Chinese government on the one hand tries to solve some of the problems faced by China, on the other hand uses propaganda involving patriotism and ethnic identity to unify people within. Whether this way can work in the end is still unknown -- maybe yes, then guess fewer and fewer people will still talk about democracy is the only way to govern the world; or maybe not, then China is definitely be not better than Russia: before USSR's collapse, people are poor; after its collapse, people are still poor and only a few people benefited from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics)
  - laughinghan 7y ago
    I actually was careful not to say that I believe that is happening, I said that's what "average people" think. You asked "if China is really going to collapse, what is in it for average people in the US or other countries?", and I hoped that you were genuinely interested in understanding why there are people in the West who dislike the Chinese government. Does my explanation make sense, and convince you that it's not because they want to "prove democracy correct"? I am also interested in what you believe is and isn't happening in China and why. The organ harvesting reports are extreme and salacious, and I can see believing the Vocational Training Centers are voluntary, but the others seem obvious and undeniable? Is it not well-known in China that the government bans certain books? Or that social media posts can be taken down on the basis of being too critical of the party? I'm not entirely sure why you bring up shock therapy. It's true that many countries failed to or suffered when they liberalized their society alongside their economies. It's also true that many countries have done it quite successfully.
woodandsteel 7y ago
China collapsed at the end of the Qing dynasty. There followed civil war and conquest by Japan. And then the Communists overthrew the Nationalists. And then you had the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution, and then switch away from Mao to a mixed economy, and finally Xi's new Maoism. The history of China for the last century has been quite unstable, and so it seems quite reasonable to assume that one of these days there is going to be some more revolution.

NicoJuicy 7y ago

China made it personal ( for me) messing with democracy and the EU through the sham "16+1". Which is not meant to break the EU's democracy and getting more votes. Nothing else. I wish Hong Kong and Taiwan the very best, even this far away China is overreaching it's influence. They shouldn't be surprised that they have lost all sympathy from a lot of westerners. Before I forget, if you try to loan halve of the world money ( there are no real investments from China), you are not a developing country and shouldn't abuse our help. There is also no way that Alibaba would have gotten that big without being a developed country and the Postal Union financial assistance. We basically financed it.

cdmckay 7y ago
So China is bad because they invested in eastern EU countries?
- SubiculumCode 7y ago
  Chinese apologist.
- NicoJuicy 7y ago
  It's not investing :D Everyone can see that, it's loans and you get a cheaper loan when you use Chinese workers. It's also shell companies, that do nothing ( from a research of the Netherlands) It's a scam

laughinghan 7y ago

Why 1991? Surely such articles predate 1991. I'm not sure why you think writers at Bloomberg, a Wall Street-oriented outlet, represent average people in the US. I'm also not sure why you think anyone would want China to collapse in order to "prove democracy correct", as if to win a bet. Democracy is a means to an end. "Average people" think that in China, though many people are doing great under the current system, there are also people not doing great, average people just like them, who are being oppressed, harassed for reading banned books, punished for criticizing party officials, put into re-education labor camps, even having their organs harvested, and they want that to stop. If China stopped all that tomorrow without collapsing, most people would be ecstatic about that. But they won't, and average people believe the best way to permanently stop that kind of thing is for everyone to get a voice and a vote in their government—indeed, for a hundred flowers to bloom, or 百花齐放, if you will.

franklingu 7y ago
> who are being oppressed, harassed for reading banned books, punished for criticizing party officials, put into re-education labor camps, even having their organs harvested Apparently I do not believe this is happening in China and you do. Maybe I am brainwashed by Chinese government or you are affected by all those western media. Anyway, Chinese government cares not so much about what western media says -- they have been saying that China is going to collapse for so many years. Instead, Chinese government on the one hand tries to solve some of the problems faced by China, on the other hand uses propaganda involving patriotism and ethnic identity to unify people within. Whether this way can work in the end is still unknown -- maybe yes, then guess fewer and fewer people will still talk about democracy is the only way to govern the world; or maybe not, then China is definitely be not better than Russia: before USSR's collapse, people are poor; after its collapse, people are still poor and only a few people benefited from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_therapy_(economics)
- laughinghan 7y ago
  I actually was careful not to say that I believe that is happening, I said that's what "average people" think. You asked "if China is really going to collapse, what is in it for average people in the US or other countries?", and I hoped that you were genuinely interested in understanding why there are people in the West who dislike the Chinese government. Does my explanation make sense, and convince you that it's not because they want to "prove democracy correct"? I am also interested in what you believe is and isn't happening in China and why. The organ harvesting reports are extreme and salacious, and I can see believing the Vocational Training Centers are voluntary, but the others seem obvious and undeniable? Is it not well-known in China that the government bans certain books? Or that social media posts can be taken down on the basis of being too critical of the party? I'm not entirely sure why you bring up shock therapy. It's true that many countries failed to or suffered when they liberalized their society alongside their economies. It's also true that many countries have done it quite successfully.

woodandsteel 7y ago

China collapsed at the end of the Qing dynasty. There followed civil war and conquest by Japan. And then the Communists overthrew the Nationalists. And then you had the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution, and then switch away from Mao to a mixed economy, and finally Xi's new Maoism. The history of China for the last century has been quite unstable, and so it seems quite reasonable to assume that one of these days there is going to be some more revolution.