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If he’s defending his colleague having sex with a 17 year old who had been trafficked for sex since she was 15, then yes I don’t think any president of an organ

If he’s defending his colleague having sex with a 17 year old who had been trafficked for sex since she was 15, then yes I don’t think any president of an organization should do that.

wander_homer 7y ago
His entire argument was that it was possible that he had no idea that she was a trafficking victim when she approached him, it could have been a regular prostitute from his point of view. However Stallman didn't downplay the harm that's been done to the girl and he didn't rule out the possibility that his friend indeed knew about all of that.
craigsmansion 7y ago
> If he’s defending That's a big "if" Stallman was reviled not for things he didn't do, but for thoughts he didn't think.
- flatb 7y ago
  Stallman was reviled because he has been accused, by several independent parties, of, among other things: -Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office. -Threatening a colleague to kill himself if he/she didn't go on a date with him. -Posting up signs in his workplace along the lines of "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)".
  - craigsmansion 7y ago
    > Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office. Even the initial accusation doesn't try to push the story that far: "He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. [..] (the mattress was also known to have shirtless people lounging on it…)" Person has sleeping accommodation in place where he lives (odd thought it may be). Sometimes people use it as chair. No mentions of requests or toplessness. > -Threatening a colleague to kill himself if he/she didn't go on a date with him. Unsubstantiated: saying something like "I can't imagine life without you" can be interpreted just like that depending on a variety of circumstances. That was also decades ago. > Posting up signs in his workplace along the lines of "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)". Really now? Incidentally also the only one of your accusations of which there is evidence instead of hearsay or urban legends. Furthermore, "a sign" not "signs".
    - _rpaf 7y ago
      How excellent of you to redact the most damning part of your quote of the initial accusation, that literally says: > He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason Now go ahead and tell me it's a coincidence you kept that part out, and it was probably not a big deal, and they were all exaggerating in some inexplicable coordinated effort to be disturbed. So your arguments basically consist on half-quotes, "it happened long ago, so it isn't true", "unsubstantiated; since there's no recordings of it, he probably just said something nice and was misinterpreted yet again" and "maybe that happened, but since I, a man, who'd never be targeted by his sexual advances, think it's ok, it's ok", completely disregarding the fact that all these accusations have been corroborated by witnesses, ranging from people interviewed on several media and dozens of reports and online comments from people who claim to have worked with him over the years, let alone the several unrelated victims of his "urban legends", and most of all, the fact that people repeatedly let him know about his attitude and he didn't give a damn. In short, yet another big, somehow coordinated witch hunt by overly sensitive SJWs.
      - craigsmansion 7y ago
        Of course that's not a coincidence, hence the ellipses of omission. I left out the bits that weren't factual. Even then your "Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office" comes out of nowhere. "He kept the door open to proudly showcase" could have easily been "He kept to door shut to hide his actions", that is: both cases would be equally damning from the writer's perspective, and hinges only on their "implications that went with it" which are their invention alone. Facts remaining, he had a mattress in his office. He left his door open. Sometimes people were sitting on the bed. > "it happened long ago, so it isn't true" No. It happened a long time ago. People, over time, remember the emotional impact of something on them, but no longer the precise wording. She remembers the gist of someone talking about suicide, because that's what she thought he meant. Without the exact wording and cirumstances, it can be very difficult to figure out what transpired. So it's not "it isn't true" or "she must be lying", but the account is unsubstantiated, likely irretrievably so, because "it happened a long time ago." > completely disregarding the fact I don't disregard them, I check them one by one, and so far I found them lacking. Why are you angry at me for reading what other people said before believing them at face value? > that all these accusations have been corroborated by witnesses, ranging from people interviewed on several media and dozens of reports and online comments from people who claim to have worked with him over the years, let alone the several unrelated victims of his "urban legends", and most of all, the fact that people repeatedly let him know about his attitude and he didn't give a damn. Please provide links outside of twitter. So far most accusations lead back to the initial article on medium by Salem G. > In short, yet another big, somehow coordinated witch hunt by overly sensitive SJWs. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. I read the allegations, try to find the various sources, and try to put them into a logical context. I guess I'm simply a Knight for Justice (also: old weirdos)
denton-scratch 7y ago
In point of fact, nobody has accused Minsky of having sex with the girl. Well, not anybody who could know. Someone who was there has stated specifically that Minsky turned her down. AFAIK nobody (who could know) has contradicted that. RMS was simply saying that bullshit was being perpetrated in that CSAIL mailing list, about his dead friend and colleague. If Minsky had been alive, no doubt he'd now be suing. RMS has been traduced by Selam Jie Gano, Vice and TechCrunch, and goodness knows how many others (the bullshit and distortions seem to be everywhere). I regret that FSF have accepted his resignation; I am now resigning my membership of the FSFE.

If he’s defending his colleague having sex with a 17 year old who had been trafficked for sex since she was 15, then yes I don’t think any president of an organization should do that.

wander_homer 7y ago

His entire argument was that it was possible that he had no idea that she was a trafficking victim when she approached him, it could have been a regular prostitute from his point of view. However Stallman didn't downplay the harm that's been done to the girl and he didn't rule out the possibility that his friend indeed knew about all of that.

craigsmansion 7y ago

> If he’s defending That's a big "if" Stallman was reviled not for things he didn't do, but for thoughts he didn't think.

flatb 7y ago
Stallman was reviled because he has been accused, by several independent parties, of, among other things: -Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office. -Threatening a colleague to kill himself if he/she didn't go on a date with him. -Posting up signs in his workplace along the lines of "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)".
- craigsmansion 7y ago
  > Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office. Even the initial accusation doesn't try to push the story that far: "He literally used to have a mattress on the floor of his office. [..] (the mattress was also known to have shirtless people lounging on it…)" Person has sleeping accommodation in place where he lives (odd thought it may be). Sometimes people use it as chair. No mentions of requests or toplessness. > -Threatening a colleague to kill himself if he/she didn't go on a date with him. Unsubstantiated: saying something like "I can't imagine life without you" can be interpreted just like that depending on a variety of circumstances. That was also decades ago. > Posting up signs in his workplace along the lines of "Knight for Justice (Also: Hot Ladies)". Really now? Incidentally also the only one of your accusations of which there is evidence instead of hearsay or urban legends. Furthermore, "a sign" not "signs".
  - _rpaf 7y ago
    How excellent of you to redact the most damning part of your quote of the initial accusation, that literally says: > He kept the door to his office open, to proudly showcase that mattress and all the implications that went with it. Many female students avoided the corridor with his office for that reason Now go ahead and tell me it's a coincidence you kept that part out, and it was probably not a big deal, and they were all exaggerating in some inexplicable coordinated effort to be disturbed. So your arguments basically consist on half-quotes, "it happened long ago, so it isn't true", "unsubstantiated; since there's no recordings of it, he probably just said something nice and was misinterpreted yet again" and "maybe that happened, but since I, a man, who'd never be targeted by his sexual advances, think it's ok, it's ok", completely disregarding the fact that all these accusations have been corroborated by witnesses, ranging from people interviewed on several media and dozens of reports and online comments from people who claim to have worked with him over the years, let alone the several unrelated victims of his "urban legends", and most of all, the fact that people repeatedly let him know about his attitude and he didn't give a damn. In short, yet another big, somehow coordinated witch hunt by overly sensitive SJWs.
    - craigsmansion 7y ago
      Of course that's not a coincidence, hence the ellipses of omission. I left out the bits that weren't factual. Even then your "Asking female coworkers to lay down topless on a mattress in his office" comes out of nowhere. "He kept the door open to proudly showcase" could have easily been "He kept to door shut to hide his actions", that is: both cases would be equally damning from the writer's perspective, and hinges only on their "implications that went with it" which are their invention alone. Facts remaining, he had a mattress in his office. He left his door open. Sometimes people were sitting on the bed. > "it happened long ago, so it isn't true" No. It happened a long time ago. People, over time, remember the emotional impact of something on them, but no longer the precise wording. She remembers the gist of someone talking about suicide, because that's what she thought he meant. Without the exact wording and cirumstances, it can be very difficult to figure out what transpired. So it's not "it isn't true" or "she must be lying", but the account is unsubstantiated, likely irretrievably so, because "it happened a long time ago." > completely disregarding the fact I don't disregard them, I check them one by one, and so far I found them lacking. Why are you angry at me for reading what other people said before believing them at face value? > that all these accusations have been corroborated by witnesses, ranging from people interviewed on several media and dozens of reports and online comments from people who claim to have worked with him over the years, let alone the several unrelated victims of his "urban legends", and most of all, the fact that people repeatedly let him know about his attitude and he didn't give a damn. Please provide links outside of twitter. So far most accusations lead back to the initial article on medium by Salem G. > In short, yet another big, somehow coordinated witch hunt by overly sensitive SJWs. I don't know, and frankly, I don't care. I read the allegations, try to find the various sources, and try to put them into a logical context. I guess I'm simply a Knight for Justice (also: old weirdos)

denton-scratch 7y ago

In point of fact, nobody has accused Minsky of having sex with the girl. Well, not anybody who could know. Someone who was there has stated specifically that Minsky turned her down. AFAIK nobody (who could know) has contradicted that. RMS was simply saying that bullshit was being perpetrated in that CSAIL mailing list, about his dead friend and colleague. If Minsky had been alive, no doubt he'd now be suing. RMS has been traduced by Selam Jie Gano, Vice and TechCrunch, and goodness knows how many others (the bullshit and distortions seem to be everywhere). I regret that FSF have accepted his resignation; I am now resigning my membership of the FSFE.