5 ms·

That's not very arbitrary. If you're hiring someone, you're always in a position of power. If you're dating someone, there's no power differential (or if there

by mrkurt 7y ago

That's not very arbitrary. If you're hiring someone, you're always in a position of power. If you're dating someone, there's no power differential (or if there is, that's a problem all by itself).

StavrosK 7y ago
How are you "always in a position of power" when hiring someone? That's only true when there's more supply than demand, and it's the opposite in markets where the candidates get multiple high-quality offers to choose from.
- untog 7y ago
  Because you are paying that person money and have the ability to fire them. In the US you're also probably providing their health care. I get what you're saying, but no one moves jobs every week. The sunk costs of switching employment are significant for the employee, less so for the company.
  - Double_a_92 7y ago
    They provide you valuable work in exchange for that... Internally you are probably imagining some big corp that can pick from 100s of replaceable workers.
    - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
      If you provide health care, you always have power over that person. Less so if they are relatively healthy - but any condition, theirs or a family members, means that the person has no real choice but to do enough good work to keep the job. Even if they hate the company. Even if you treat them poorly. They still must work for you. This is even more true if you have hundreds of people that will replace them and your health coverage is good enough - or at least, better than the opposition. To a lesser degree, the same goes with vacation time and other benefits. At least in the US, anyway. This is why having some of this stuff coded into law and decoupled from employment takes some power away from employers.
      - Double_a_92 7y ago
        Ideally there are multiple companies which you could choose from... And some might really need your specific skillset.
- rkangel 7y ago
  In practice, that's how it works, particularly at the lower end of the economic spectrum. If that wasn't the case then the concept of a minimum wage wouldn't be necessary - the market would take care of it. Of course, this is a point of view and not everyone agrees with me, but to me it appears that for a chunk of the population the available jobs do not pay well enough to meet a certain standard of living.
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    > it appears that for a chunk of the population the available jobs do not pay well enough to meet a certain standard of living. That is definitely true, but it's also pretty much the exact opposite of "always".
jlawson 7y ago
And yet from the point of view of the one who everyone is discriminating against, the feeling is pretty similar: Everyone rejects me and there's nothing I can do about it.
lone_haxx0r 7y ago
> If you're hiring someone, you're always in a position of power. What? Can you explain the reasoning behind this statement?
- smt88 7y ago
  If the candidate had more power, she would set up interviews and force the employers to impress her. Of course, that scenario happens only in extreme edge cases. Even in a booming economy with a shortage of workers, John Doe is not going to be pursued aggressively to fill the Senior Marketing Manager role. This makes intuitive sense: employers have a ton of money, so people come to them. Right now I have a client who needs to hire truck drivers and can't do it fast enough. I asked him what he'd done to make his company the most attractive (pay, technology, perks, etc.). He said he's done nothing.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > John Doe is not going to be pursued aggressively to fill the Senior Marketing Manager role. That's exactly what recruiters and headhunters do. Aggressively nails it.
    - rumanator 7y ago
      Recruiters and headhunters don't necessarily seek people to fill a role. They seek people to fill their batch of application forms to send to those actually doing the hiring.
    - smt88 7y ago
      Recruiters don't replace the interview process, where the dynamic is that the applicant is the interviewee. They only change the way the applicant discovers the job. Most people will never be headhunted.
  - lone_haxx0r 7y ago
    By that same logic, it's unfair for attractive people to choose who they date, because they're in a position of power.

by mrkurt 7y ago

That's not very arbitrary. If you're hiring someone, you're always in a position of power. If you're dating someone, there's no power differential (or if there is, that's a problem all by itself).

StavrosK 7y ago

How are you "always in a position of power" when hiring someone? That's only true when there's more supply than demand, and it's the opposite in markets where the candidates get multiple high-quality offers to choose from.

untog 7y ago
Because you are paying that person money and have the ability to fire them. In the US you're also probably providing their health care. I get what you're saying, but no one moves jobs every week. The sunk costs of switching employment are significant for the employee, less so for the company.
- Double_a_92 7y ago
  They provide you valuable work in exchange for that... Internally you are probably imagining some big corp that can pick from 100s of replaceable workers.
  - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
    If you provide health care, you always have power over that person. Less so if they are relatively healthy - but any condition, theirs or a family members, means that the person has no real choice but to do enough good work to keep the job. Even if they hate the company. Even if you treat them poorly. They still must work for you. This is even more true if you have hundreds of people that will replace them and your health coverage is good enough - or at least, better than the opposition. To a lesser degree, the same goes with vacation time and other benefits. At least in the US, anyway. This is why having some of this stuff coded into law and decoupled from employment takes some power away from employers.
    - Double_a_92 7y ago
      Ideally there are multiple companies which you could choose from... And some might really need your specific skillset.
rkangel 7y ago
In practice, that's how it works, particularly at the lower end of the economic spectrum. If that wasn't the case then the concept of a minimum wage wouldn't be necessary - the market would take care of it. Of course, this is a point of view and not everyone agrees with me, but to me it appears that for a chunk of the population the available jobs do not pay well enough to meet a certain standard of living.
- StavrosK 7y ago
  > it appears that for a chunk of the population the available jobs do not pay well enough to meet a certain standard of living. That is definitely true, but it's also pretty much the exact opposite of "always".

jlawson 7y ago

And yet from the point of view of the one who everyone is discriminating against, the feeling is pretty similar: Everyone rejects me and there's nothing I can do about it.

lone_haxx0r 7y ago

> If you're hiring someone, you're always in a position of power. What? Can you explain the reasoning behind this statement?

smt88 7y ago
If the candidate had more power, she would set up interviews and force the employers to impress her. Of course, that scenario happens only in extreme edge cases. Even in a booming economy with a shortage of workers, John Doe is not going to be pursued aggressively to fill the Senior Marketing Manager role. This makes intuitive sense: employers have a ton of money, so people come to them. Right now I have a client who needs to hire truck drivers and can't do it fast enough. I asked him what he'd done to make his company the most attractive (pay, technology, perks, etc.). He said he's done nothing.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > John Doe is not going to be pursued aggressively to fill the Senior Marketing Manager role. That's exactly what recruiters and headhunters do. Aggressively nails it.
  - rumanator 7y ago
    Recruiters and headhunters don't necessarily seek people to fill a role. They seek people to fill their batch of application forms to send to those actually doing the hiring.
  - smt88 7y ago
    Recruiters don't replace the interview process, where the dynamic is that the applicant is the interviewee. They only change the way the applicant discovers the job. Most people will never be headhunted.
- lone_haxx0r 7y ago
  By that same logic, it's unfair for attractive people to choose who they date, because they're in a position of power.