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ICE, because it’s useless. There is a service for catching criminals it’s called the police. There is absolutely no need for a nazier one that would handle only

ICE, because it’s useless. There is a service for catching criminals it’s called the police. There is absolutely no need for a nazier one that would handle only one type of misdemeanors in the most brutal And devastating way they can do.

newfriend 7y ago
There is obviously a current need for ICE. There are more than 10 million illegal aliens currently living in the US illegally, and this problem has been happening for decades. It's disingenuous to call this a misdemeanor when it's in regard to people who have no legal right to be in the United States. Immigration law is a federal issue, and local law enforcement is not setup to deal with these situations. I agree with you though that it would be great if local police were enabled to find and deport all of the illegal aliens currently residing in the US illegally.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > It's disingenuous to call this a misdemeanor when it's in regard to people who have no legal right to be in the United States. Why? It is a misdemeanor. You've got no legal right to park in a handicapped spot, either, but that doesn't make it a felony.
  - newfriend 7y ago
    Because there are no other misdemeanors where the penalty is deportation. You are knowingly likening it to minor infractions by legal residents as an attempt to frame it in a palatable manner. The only reason to point it out as a misdemeanor is to make it seem like it is not a problem.
    - 1111236112347 7y ago
      Could you elaborate on the "it" you refer to? ICE has jurisdiction over a large number of federal laws involving immigration as well as laws involving transporting illegal goods across national boundaries (narcotics, weapons, money laundering, child pornography, etc...). Some of these crimes certainly are felonies, whereas others are misdemeanors.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      > Because there are no other misdemeanors where the penalty is deportation. This is false. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/immigration-obama-deportation-misdemeanor-felony/383920/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/immigra... "The U.S. government initiated deportation proceedings in May 2007 against Saul as he returned from a holiday in Mexico. Saul is a British citizen, born in London, and at the time his removal proceedings began, he had been living in the United States for almost a full decade as a legal permanent resident... As grounds for deportation, the government cited a misdemeanor—check fraud—that Saul had committed at the age of 19." "Aggravated felonies sound serious, and many of them are (kidnapping, theft, and bribery make the list, among many others), but there are also many misdemeanors that could fall within this term’s scope due to the mismatch between federal and state law. Crimes of moral turpitude are equally tricky." > The only reason to point it out as a misdemeanor is to make it seem like it is not a problem. It's to put it in perspective when folks try to act like crossing the border is a crime against humanity.
      - newfriend 7y ago
        The penalty for check fraud is not deportation, I'm sure you know that. The US is free to decide who gets to reside here and who doesn't. Obviously the case you linked is an outlier. I don't understand why you're being so pedantic about this. You absolutely know that people use the 'misdemeanor' phrasing to make it seem like crossing the border is as innocuous as jaywalking. It's not. It has real effects and has been a major problem in the US for many decades. > It's to put it in perspective when folks try to act like crossing the border is a crime against humanity. Sure, crossing the border is not a crime against humanity, but neither is enforcing the law.
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        By that standard, the penalty for illegal entry isn’t deportation, either. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 “shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.” > It has real effects and has been a major problem in the US for many decades. Like many other misdemeanors.
solidsnack9000 7y ago
The need for ICE has to do with jurisdiction. Immigration and customs (ivory and stuff like that) are federal matters. A lot of federal stuff gets handled by federal police agencies, like the DEA and the ATF. The Secret Services investigates and disrupts counterfeiting and money laundering. The IRS has a small number of armed officers that perform arrests for very specific crimes. The reason for this separation has to do with consistency and scope: legality of immigration, and illegality of counterfeiting, should be consistently the same from state to state. Cases involving these issues could happen in any state and are likely to involve more than one state at a time, whereas most police work usually involves only a small area. They also are not areas where the states have authority to set policy, so it could create difficult situation for police if there were a disagreement between their state and the federal government over an issue like income tax. These factors together seem to explain why we have so many federal police forces. How would things be better if local police had authority to detain and deport people, or to investigate customs matters?
drak0n1c 7y ago
Local police are often prevented by Sanctuary City policies from aiding the enforcement any form of immigration law - and they get away with that due to immigration being scoped as a federal policy. Unless there is an immigration omnibus bill or constitutional amendment, federal enforcement will continue to be necessary.
1111236112347 7y ago
ICE definitely doesn't only enforce just one type of misdemeanor. Some recent cases: - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/police-officer-arrested-child-pornography-charges - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/arms-trafficker-convicted-anti-aircraft-missiles-scheme-and-other-arms-offenses - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/rwandan-man-sentenced-immigration-fraud-and-perjury-connection-1994-genocide - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/operation-cookout-indictment-charges-39-defendants-heroin-and-fentanyl-trafficking - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/former-fresno-resident-charged-illegally-brokering-sale-military-arms-foreign - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-hsi-investigation-leads-federal-indictment-alleging-scheme-avoid-payment-18 (edited to fix formatting)

newfriend 7y ago

There is obviously a current need for ICE. There are more than 10 million illegal aliens currently living in the US illegally, and this problem has been happening for decades. It's disingenuous to call this a misdemeanor when it's in regard to people who have no legal right to be in the United States. Immigration law is a federal issue, and local law enforcement is not setup to deal with these situations. I agree with you though that it would be great if local police were enabled to find and deport all of the illegal aliens currently residing in the US illegally.

ceejayoz 7y ago
> It's disingenuous to call this a misdemeanor when it's in regard to people who have no legal right to be in the United States. Why? It is a misdemeanor. You've got no legal right to park in a handicapped spot, either, but that doesn't make it a felony.
- newfriend 7y ago
  Because there are no other misdemeanors where the penalty is deportation. You are knowingly likening it to minor infractions by legal residents as an attempt to frame it in a palatable manner. The only reason to point it out as a misdemeanor is to make it seem like it is not a problem.
  - 1111236112347 7y ago
    Could you elaborate on the "it" you refer to? ICE has jurisdiction over a large number of federal laws involving immigration as well as laws involving transporting illegal goods across national boundaries (narcotics, weapons, money laundering, child pornography, etc...). Some of these crimes certainly are felonies, whereas others are misdemeanors.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > Because there are no other misdemeanors where the penalty is deportation. This is false. https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/immigration-obama-deportation-misdemeanor-felony/383920/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/immigra... "The U.S. government initiated deportation proceedings in May 2007 against Saul as he returned from a holiday in Mexico. Saul is a British citizen, born in London, and at the time his removal proceedings began, he had been living in the United States for almost a full decade as a legal permanent resident... As grounds for deportation, the government cited a misdemeanor—check fraud—that Saul had committed at the age of 19." "Aggravated felonies sound serious, and many of them are (kidnapping, theft, and bribery make the list, among many others), but there are also many misdemeanors that could fall within this term’s scope due to the mismatch between federal and state law. Crimes of moral turpitude are equally tricky." > The only reason to point it out as a misdemeanor is to make it seem like it is not a problem. It's to put it in perspective when folks try to act like crossing the border is a crime against humanity.
    - newfriend 7y ago
      The penalty for check fraud is not deportation, I'm sure you know that. The US is free to decide who gets to reside here and who doesn't. Obviously the case you linked is an outlier. I don't understand why you're being so pedantic about this. You absolutely know that people use the 'misdemeanor' phrasing to make it seem like crossing the border is as innocuous as jaywalking. It's not. It has real effects and has been a major problem in the US for many decades. > It's to put it in perspective when folks try to act like crossing the border is a crime against humanity. Sure, crossing the border is not a crime against humanity, but neither is enforcing the law.
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        By that standard, the penalty for illegal entry isn’t deportation, either. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1325 “shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.” > It has real effects and has been a major problem in the US for many decades. Like many other misdemeanors.

solidsnack9000 7y ago

The need for ICE has to do with jurisdiction. Immigration and customs (ivory and stuff like that) are federal matters. A lot of federal stuff gets handled by federal police agencies, like the DEA and the ATF. The Secret Services investigates and disrupts counterfeiting and money laundering. The IRS has a small number of armed officers that perform arrests for very specific crimes. The reason for this separation has to do with consistency and scope: legality of immigration, and illegality of counterfeiting, should be consistently the same from state to state. Cases involving these issues could happen in any state and are likely to involve more than one state at a time, whereas most police work usually involves only a small area. They also are not areas where the states have authority to set policy, so it could create difficult situation for police if there were a disagreement between their state and the federal government over an issue like income tax. These factors together seem to explain why we have so many federal police forces. How would things be better if local police had authority to detain and deport people, or to investigate customs matters?

drak0n1c 7y ago

Local police are often prevented by Sanctuary City policies from aiding the enforcement any form of immigration law - and they get away with that due to immigration being scoped as a federal policy. Unless there is an immigration omnibus bill or constitutional amendment, federal enforcement will continue to be necessary.

1111236112347 7y ago

ICE definitely doesn't only enforce just one type of misdemeanor. Some recent cases: - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/police-officer-arrested-child-pornography-charges - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/arms-trafficker-convicted-anti-aircraft-missiles-scheme-and-other-arms-offenses - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/rwandan-man-sentenced-immigration-fraud-and-perjury-connection-1994-genocide - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/operation-cookout-indictment-charges-39-defendants-heroin-and-fentanyl-trafficking - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/former-fresno-resident-charged-illegally-brokering-sale-military-arms-foreign - https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-hsi-investigation-leads-federal-indictment-alleging-scheme-avoid-payment-18 (edited to fix formatting)