6 ms·

I'm all for holding companies accountable, but I don't understand why Juul seems to get all the blame here, in a way that many other companies don't. Why isn't

by melq 7y ago

I'm all for holding companies accountable, but I don't understand why Juul seems to get all the blame here, in a way that many other companies don't. Why isn't underage drinking Budweiser's fault? Why are mango flavored Juul pods problematic but mango flavored White Claws aren't? Not saying I think Juul is blameless here.

orf 7y ago
Both can be addictive and cause health problems. Smoking is objectively worse though.
- nickthegreek 7y ago
  We are talking about vaping and not smoking. Also, objectively drunk drivers kill more people than smoking/vaping drivers.
SomeOldThrow 7y ago
> I'm all for holding companies accountable, but I don't understand why Juul seems to get all the blame here, in a way that many other companies don't. There's a lot of money that JUUL is standing to gain if they keep up their market share and conversion from smoking continues to happen at the same rate. Look who stands to lose if they do and you have your answer. It's worth noting this was launched in the US just a month and a half ago: https://www.pmi.com/smoke-free-products/iqos-our-tobacco-heating-system https://www.pmi.com/smoke-free-products/iqos-our-tobacco-hea...
Judgmentality 7y ago
I agree with your sentiment, but to answer your specific question comparing e-cigarettes to alcohol (or really Juul to Budweiser) - public acceptance. Alcohol, love it or hate it, is an integral component of human cultures going back millennia. Drugs (other than alcohol) are also important, but I would wager alcohol on its own is more important than all of the other recreational drugs combined (I welcome arguments against this unsubstantiated claim). People love to hate cigarettes, especially cigarette companies. Juul just got an enormous amount of money (almost 11 digits) from what was formerly Philip Morris. For the most part, attempts to regulate cigarettes have been successful. Hell, arguably attempts to regulate other drugs have been successful (the war on drugs is a mess, but outlawing psychadelics did impact their availability). Alcohol, on the other hand, is accepted by most people. Attempts to outlaw it have been less than successful (contrary to popular belief prohibition in the United States actually did decrease drinking, but it was still very unpopular). Taking alcohol away from Americans is like taking away our guns. Maybe it's for the best, but prepare for people to literally die fighting you. E-cigarettes however are still relatively nascent and could be banned before they'd be anything more than a footnote in human history.
- SomeOldThrow 7y ago
  > People love to hate cigarettes, especially cigarette companies.... For the most part, attempts to regulate cigarettes have been successful. Depends on what your goals were. It doesn't seem like there are consistent goals with vaping and smoking at all. One is reactionary where the the other is health related. I haven't heard any proponent of vaping articulate the expected/desired effect at all—it's entirely based around teen vaping in a vacuum.
- awinder 7y ago
  Just to nit this / expand because I liked the "integral component" aspect and had not thought of it -- alcohol saved lives in our shared history due to it's use in disinfecting water. Smoking has been around across civilizations for some time, but alcohol/beer had a utility and was used everywhere.
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melq 7y ago
This comment has me reconsidering this position: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21053443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21053443

by melq 7y ago

orf 7y ago

Both can be addictive and cause health problems. Smoking is objectively worse though.

nickthegreek 7y ago
We are talking about vaping and not smoking. Also, objectively drunk drivers kill more people than smoking/vaping drivers.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago

> I'm all for holding companies accountable, but I don't understand why Juul seems to get all the blame here, in a way that many other companies don't. There's a lot of money that JUUL is standing to gain if they keep up their market share and conversion from smoking continues to happen at the same rate. Look who stands to lose if they do and you have your answer. It's worth noting this was launched in the US just a month and a half ago: https://www.pmi.com/smoke-free-products/iqos-our-tobacco-heating-system https://www.pmi.com/smoke-free-products/iqos-our-tobacco-hea...

Judgmentality 7y ago

I agree with your sentiment, but to answer your specific question comparing e-cigarettes to alcohol (or really Juul to Budweiser) - public acceptance. Alcohol, love it or hate it, is an integral component of human cultures going back millennia. Drugs (other than alcohol) are also important, but I would wager alcohol on its own is more important than all of the other recreational drugs combined (I welcome arguments against this unsubstantiated claim). People love to hate cigarettes, especially cigarette companies. Juul just got an enormous amount of money (almost 11 digits) from what was formerly Philip Morris. For the most part, attempts to regulate cigarettes have been successful. Hell, arguably attempts to regulate other drugs have been successful (the war on drugs is a mess, but outlawing psychadelics did impact their availability). Alcohol, on the other hand, is accepted by most people. Attempts to outlaw it have been less than successful (contrary to popular belief prohibition in the United States actually did decrease drinking, but it was still very unpopular). Taking alcohol away from Americans is like taking away our guns. Maybe it's for the best, but prepare for people to literally die fighting you. E-cigarettes however are still relatively nascent and could be banned before they'd be anything more than a footnote in human history.

SomeOldThrow 7y ago
> People love to hate cigarettes, especially cigarette companies.... For the most part, attempts to regulate cigarettes have been successful. Depends on what your goals were. It doesn't seem like there are consistent goals with vaping and smoking at all. One is reactionary where the the other is health related. I haven't heard any proponent of vaping articulate the expected/desired effect at all—it's entirely based around teen vaping in a vacuum.
awinder 7y ago
Just to nit this / expand because I liked the "integral component" aspect and had not thought of it -- alcohol saved lives in our shared history due to it's use in disinfecting water. Smoking has been around across civilizations for some time, but alcohol/beer had a utility and was used everywhere.

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melq 7y ago

This comment has me reconsidering this position: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21053443 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21053443