7 ms·

I have been developing in .Net MVC 5 and now the last 6 months in .Net Core 2.1. Core is pretty awesome, I would say the learning curve is pretty high, but I'm

by avgDev 7y ago

I have been developing in .Net MVC 5 and now the last 6 months in .Net Core 2.1. Core is pretty awesome, I would say the learning curve is pretty high, but I'm very satisfied. Previously, I used Java in school. The .Net stack offers a lot of jobs in enterprise companies, if you are someone that dislikes SV mindset. Also, Visual Studio is an insane IDE. Although, I recently did have some nasty bugs but updates are coming out pretty quickly. Edit: Microsoft has also added many new videos to help beginners, these cover various topics https://dotnet.microsoft.com/learn/videos https://dotnet.microsoft.com/learn/videos.

gtsteve 7y ago
VS is very good but I've been using Rider since the start of this year for most work, I found it to be a very strong competitor.
- LandR 7y ago
  Visual studio crashes and hangs on me multiple times a day. Rider is just solid.
  - metamet 7y ago
    Visual Studio does this for me a lot as well, especially when projects become larger. The number of times the typeahead caused the app to hang is too numerous to count. Part of me misses .NET, but I've been mostly working with Golang and Node lately. Visual Studio Code is pretty stellar. Maybe someday VS will catch up to VSC. :)
    - jsingleton 7y ago
      I also have problems with VS resource usage. It appears to depend on what file type the focussed tab has open. It's still 32-bit, which can't help. Never had perf issues with VSC, which is surprising considering it's web tech. It's a different class of app to VS but much nicer to use, and of course it's cross platform.
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    I try to avoid anything by Jetbrains, as the process of reporting bugs and trying to get show-stopping bugs fixed has been a nightmare with them. This was during their RC phase of Rider, where I had a number of bugs. They went ahead and shipped it to full release (where it was no longer free of charge) without fixing a single one of the bugs I reported and even followed up on. What is the point of an RC beta test if you are so behind on bug fixes that you're not even able to triage all incoming reports? Seems like it should still be called beta at that point. To their credit, I've had great experiences with RubyMine, but that was the exception to the rule for my experiences with Jetbrains IDEs. Edit: Before anyone else downvotes, I'll point out that I realize this is not the experience others have had, but I was not exaggerating these claims.
    - mythz 7y ago
      That’s about the opposite experience that I’ve had, they’ve always been quick to respond and resolve my reported issues, they’ve even created tickets themselves when I’ve reported them over Twitter.
      - Nuzzerino 7y ago
        This bug has been open for 3 years (and not touched for 2 years). It's stuff like this you see everywhere: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-3461 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-3461
  - mumblemumble 7y ago
    I haven't used VS in about 2 years now, so this experience may be too many versions out of date to be relevant anymore, but for a while I had very similar problems. And then I uninstalled ReSharper, and VS all of a sudden became very snappy.
    - ToFab123 7y ago
      You can get most of snappiness back even with ReSharper installed. If you dig into the ReSharper option menu, under "Product and feature", and untick everything in the feature section except "Navigation and search", you still get the amazing refactoring and writing-code support but without your computer slows to crawl speed.
- DavidWoof 7y ago
  I've been Rider almost exclusively for about 2 years now, ever since I've been coding Core. VS is fine, but VS w/Resharper is a dog. With Rider, R# is a first class citizen, which makes a huge difference. Not to mention that the vim emulation and other addons are solid due to being shared with the intellij suite of apps.
  - TurboHaskal 7y ago
    Rider blows Visual Studio out of the water for anything F# as well. It is really a shame that Microsoft no longer seems to care about it.
  - hizanberg 7y ago
    Same, I’ve been using Rider whenever I can, VS only when I have to. Much better IDE overall.
  - equasar 7y ago
    VS 2019 has been integrating lots of new refactorings that were only on R#. It appears that they are more and more between small releases. I'm happy to never need to use R# anymore.
    - redhale 7y ago
      Refactorings are but one feature of Resharper. The code hints/suggestions are still far better than vanilla VS, unfortunately (imo).
  - GordonS 7y ago
    I switched to Rider from VS with R# after growing weary of the frequent pauses and the constant whining of my laptop fans. It took a while to configure the colour scheme to something I was comfortable with, but otherwise the experience has been really positive - I love it!
- james_s_tayler 7y ago
  Our team uses Rider at work. We love it. The UX blows VS out of the water. Nice and fast too. Unit tests are a first class citizen in Rider too.
dmix 7y ago
It's great to see the enterprise world catching up with the tech world
- codeulike 7y ago
  Wait, wait, Visual Studio has been way ahead since forever
- thrower123 7y ago
  I fail to see what the point of trying to use VS Code for .NET development would be. I suppose if you like tying one hand behind your back and making things more difficult for yourself for some reason. Or maybe you like cobbling together a rickety pile of plugins. If cost is a concern, there's Rider or even MonoDevelop.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    OmniSharp is the official C# plugin and all you need for .NET projects, and it's usually installed by default. VS Code starts faster, runs lighter, and provides 80% of the functionality of VS for most major products, and it's getting better every release. I find it more productive than VS for typical web projects.
    - james_s_tayler 7y ago
      For proper .NET projects I've used both VS Code, VS and Rider. VS Code doesn't come close. I use VS Code when doing front end stuff with Vue/TypeScript and I love it for that, but .NET Core was painful on VS Code compared to Rider.
  - jackfoxy 7y ago
    I work mainly in multi-project F# solutions. VS Code Ionide plug-in seems pretty solid for single project F#, but every time I've tried to use it for multi-project I run into some sort of situation that sends me back to Visual Studio. VS has had it's own F# problems. The latest Preview edition is pretty solid, with one annoying bug. Almost every time I open my big multi-project solution I need to rebuild to get Intellisense to eliminate the red squigglies, and then close VS and re-open. It's a known issue. Hope MS fixes it soon.
tabtab 7y ago
Re: I would say the learning curve is pretty high If you had to rank and list the top rough spots in the transition, what would they be? Entity-Framework changes are often cited, but what else is different enough?
- alfromspace 7y ago
  I went from developing front-end only with the MEAN stack, to full-stack with Webforms, to MVC...and I was easily more confused with the transition to MVC than anything else. Even being accustomed to EF now, I still would bet money that I could write data access code twice as quickly with half as many issues. I fail to see what's so much better about working with an object than understanding SQL and your data. Everyone claims MVC is a more natural, transparent web development paradigm, which I sort of agree with, but anyone who hasn't written APIs or worked with EF before will find themselves trading a lot of productivity for it.
- jsingleton 7y ago
  It depends where your starting point is. Core bundles a lot of stuff together that was previously separate or just good practice. If you are familiar with MVC / WebAPI / EF / OWIN and already doing DI / Logging etc. then it's not much of a leap.
  - avgDev 7y ago
    This is correct. I did not use DI before moving to Core and that was probably the toughest. Once learned, DI is great. MVC 5 to Core should be a pretty easy transition if you know DI.
    - nikon 7y ago
      I feel "DI" in the context of .NET Core is often the IoC container you feel forced to use. DI is a pattern, but even trying to use the logger extension without the service provider is a pain.
- mieseratte 7y ago
jsingleton 7y ago
It's usually a good idea to wait for the patch release before updating. This applies to most software, including VS, VSC and .NET Core. Being an early adopter sucks unless you're just testing it out. If it's your job then wait for it to stabilise and for the real-world bug fixes. The next Long Term Support version of .NET Core will be 3.1. It should be out in November.
- manigandham 7y ago
  .Net 3.0 has gone through about a dozen preview releases and the last 4 have a go-live production license. It's much better tested than the old .NET Framework with its monolithic releases.
  - merb 7y ago
    I can at least name two bugs. both bugs do not apply to everybody and one is fixable with some additional code. I reported both in preview9, one should be included into 3.0 but was not. the other will be fixed in 3.1: - https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13696 https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13696 - https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13715 https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13715 (Edit: corrected first link)
- thomasz 7y ago
  That's very much true for tools like Visual Studio, but not for the runtime itself.
- keithnz 7y ago
  Microsoft have been running things like Bing on it for a while
gargarplex 7y ago
As a recruiter, I have to say that .Net is still used by startups, especially in Europe and cities like Manhattan with a large European population. I am shamefully plugging the fact that I am recruiting for said roles :-)
- keithnz 7y ago
  Here in NZ its very popular as well.

by avgDev 7y ago

gtsteve 7y ago

VS is very good but I've been using Rider since the start of this year for most work, I found it to be a very strong competitor.

LandR 7y ago
Visual studio crashes and hangs on me multiple times a day. Rider is just solid.
- metamet 7y ago
  Visual Studio does this for me a lot as well, especially when projects become larger. The number of times the typeahead caused the app to hang is too numerous to count. Part of me misses .NET, but I've been mostly working with Golang and Node lately. Visual Studio Code is pretty stellar. Maybe someday VS will catch up to VSC. :)
  - jsingleton 7y ago
    I also have problems with VS resource usage. It appears to depend on what file type the focussed tab has open. It's still 32-bit, which can't help. Never had perf issues with VSC, which is surprising considering it's web tech. It's a different class of app to VS but much nicer to use, and of course it's cross platform.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  I try to avoid anything by Jetbrains, as the process of reporting bugs and trying to get show-stopping bugs fixed has been a nightmare with them. This was during their RC phase of Rider, where I had a number of bugs. They went ahead and shipped it to full release (where it was no longer free of charge) without fixing a single one of the bugs I reported and even followed up on. What is the point of an RC beta test if you are so behind on bug fixes that you're not even able to triage all incoming reports? Seems like it should still be called beta at that point. To their credit, I've had great experiences with RubyMine, but that was the exception to the rule for my experiences with Jetbrains IDEs. Edit: Before anyone else downvotes, I'll point out that I realize this is not the experience others have had, but I was not exaggerating these claims.
  - mythz 7y ago
    That’s about the opposite experience that I’ve had, they’ve always been quick to respond and resolve my reported issues, they’ve even created tickets themselves when I’ve reported them over Twitter.
    - Nuzzerino 7y ago
      This bug has been open for 3 years (and not touched for 2 years). It's stuff like this you see everywhere: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-3461 https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/RIDER-3461
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  I haven't used VS in about 2 years now, so this experience may be too many versions out of date to be relevant anymore, but for a while I had very similar problems. And then I uninstalled ReSharper, and VS all of a sudden became very snappy.
  - ToFab123 7y ago
    You can get most of snappiness back even with ReSharper installed. If you dig into the ReSharper option menu, under "Product and feature", and untick everything in the feature section except "Navigation and search", you still get the amazing refactoring and writing-code support but without your computer slows to crawl speed.
DavidWoof 7y ago
I've been Rider almost exclusively for about 2 years now, ever since I've been coding Core. VS is fine, but VS w/Resharper is a dog. With Rider, R# is a first class citizen, which makes a huge difference. Not to mention that the vim emulation and other addons are solid due to being shared with the intellij suite of apps.
- TurboHaskal 7y ago
  Rider blows Visual Studio out of the water for anything F# as well. It is really a shame that Microsoft no longer seems to care about it.
- hizanberg 7y ago
  Same, I’ve been using Rider whenever I can, VS only when I have to. Much better IDE overall.
- equasar 7y ago
  VS 2019 has been integrating lots of new refactorings that were only on R#. It appears that they are more and more between small releases. I'm happy to never need to use R# anymore.
  - redhale 7y ago
    Refactorings are but one feature of Resharper. The code hints/suggestions are still far better than vanilla VS, unfortunately (imo).
- GordonS 7y ago
  I switched to Rider from VS with R# after growing weary of the frequent pauses and the constant whining of my laptop fans. It took a while to configure the colour scheme to something I was comfortable with, but otherwise the experience has been really positive - I love it!
james_s_tayler 7y ago
Our team uses Rider at work. We love it. The UX blows VS out of the water. Nice and fast too. Unit tests are a first class citizen in Rider too.

dmix 7y ago

It's great to see the enterprise world catching up with the tech world

codeulike 7y ago
Wait, wait, Visual Studio has been way ahead since forever
thrower123 7y ago
I fail to see what the point of trying to use VS Code for .NET development would be. I suppose if you like tying one hand behind your back and making things more difficult for yourself for some reason. Or maybe you like cobbling together a rickety pile of plugins. If cost is a concern, there's Rider or even MonoDevelop.
- manigandham 7y ago
  OmniSharp is the official C# plugin and all you need for .NET projects, and it's usually installed by default. VS Code starts faster, runs lighter, and provides 80% of the functionality of VS for most major products, and it's getting better every release. I find it more productive than VS for typical web projects.
  - james_s_tayler 7y ago
    For proper .NET projects I've used both VS Code, VS and Rider. VS Code doesn't come close. I use VS Code when doing front end stuff with Vue/TypeScript and I love it for that, but .NET Core was painful on VS Code compared to Rider.
- jackfoxy 7y ago
  I work mainly in multi-project F# solutions. VS Code Ionide plug-in seems pretty solid for single project F#, but every time I've tried to use it for multi-project I run into some sort of situation that sends me back to Visual Studio. VS has had it's own F# problems. The latest Preview edition is pretty solid, with one annoying bug. Almost every time I open my big multi-project solution I need to rebuild to get Intellisense to eliminate the red squigglies, and then close VS and re-open. It's a known issue. Hope MS fixes it soon.

tabtab 7y ago

Re: I would say the learning curve is pretty high If you had to rank and list the top rough spots in the transition, what would they be? Entity-Framework changes are often cited, but what else is different enough?

alfromspace 7y ago
I went from developing front-end only with the MEAN stack, to full-stack with Webforms, to MVC...and I was easily more confused with the transition to MVC than anything else. Even being accustomed to EF now, I still would bet money that I could write data access code twice as quickly with half as many issues. I fail to see what's so much better about working with an object than understanding SQL and your data. Everyone claims MVC is a more natural, transparent web development paradigm, which I sort of agree with, but anyone who hasn't written APIs or worked with EF before will find themselves trading a lot of productivity for it.
jsingleton 7y ago
It depends where your starting point is. Core bundles a lot of stuff together that was previously separate or just good practice. If you are familiar with MVC / WebAPI / EF / OWIN and already doing DI / Logging etc. then it's not much of a leap.
- avgDev 7y ago
  This is correct. I did not use DI before moving to Core and that was probably the toughest. Once learned, DI is great. MVC 5 to Core should be a pretty easy transition if you know DI.
  - nikon 7y ago
    I feel "DI" in the context of .NET Core is often the IoC container you feel forced to use. DI is a pattern, but even trying to use the logger extension without the service provider is a pain.
mieseratte 7y ago

jsingleton 7y ago

It's usually a good idea to wait for the patch release before updating. This applies to most software, including VS, VSC and .NET Core. Being an early adopter sucks unless you're just testing it out. If it's your job then wait for it to stabilise and for the real-world bug fixes. The next Long Term Support version of .NET Core will be 3.1. It should be out in November.

manigandham 7y ago
.Net 3.0 has gone through about a dozen preview releases and the last 4 have a go-live production license. It's much better tested than the old .NET Framework with its monolithic releases.
- merb 7y ago
  I can at least name two bugs. both bugs do not apply to everybody and one is fixable with some additional code. I reported both in preview9, one should be included into 3.0 but was not. the other will be fixed in 3.1: - https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13696 https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13696 - https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13715 https://github.com/aspnet/AspNetCore/issues/13715 (Edit: corrected first link)
thomasz 7y ago
That's very much true for tools like Visual Studio, but not for the runtime itself.
keithnz 7y ago
Microsoft have been running things like Bing on it for a while

gargarplex 7y ago

As a recruiter, I have to say that .Net is still used by startups, especially in Europe and cities like Manhattan with a large European population. I am shamefully plugging the fact that I am recruiting for said roles :-)

keithnz 7y ago
Here in NZ its very popular as well.