3 ms·

I was traveling in Europe last month and met an old Canadian lady in a hostel in Berlin. She must have been in her 60s and she don't own a phone. She had a phon

I was traveling in Europe last month and met an old Canadian lady in a hostel in Berlin. She must have been in her 60s and she don't own a phone. She had a phone some years back but she left it after 4 months. She travels around with the help of maps and has been to more than 30 countries. I can personally never do this. Its hard enough traveling in a country which speaks a foreign language and has a diffrent culture. But I have very high admiration for people who can do this. I think a better alternative for folks who want to try something like this is to get a sim that has a very limited data plan so that you use the Internet only when necessary.

Marsymars 7y ago
My (Canadian) grandfather retired early (50-ish) and travelled extensively for ~15 years with my grandmother. I'm a bit envious of their ability to do so before the modern hoards of tourists and social media. I was a kid at the time, and they'd mail me postcards from each new place they went.
coldtea 7y ago
>She travels around with the help of maps and has been to more than 30 countries. I can personally never do this. How so? People did exactly this not just for millennia, but also throughout the 20th century, and up around 2005 or so... What's the difficult / tragic experience one has in a different country if they don't have constant internet access or GPS?
- vishnu_ks 7y ago
  You are right. Lot of people traveled in 20th century. But a lot more could have traveled if there was Internet in 20th century. Internet has reduced the friction to travel abroad by a lot. You know more about the world now. You can plan travel and book flight tickets, hostels and bus tickets in multiple countries by not even leaving your room from a small city in India. > What's the difficult / tragic experience one has in a different country if they don't have constant internet access or GPS? hmm. I think having an Instant access to Internet is like a super power. You feel more in control as well as save a lot of time. Some examples * Finding exchanges that gives you a good rate in a new country. Lot of exchanges just rip you off and sorting by negative reviews will help you a lot. * I think Google maps is pretty helpful especially if you are on a tight schedule. I had to get a bus late night in Budapest and had only 1 hour to reach the bus stop from hostel. I am pretty sure I could not have reached the bus stop on time if it was not for Goole maps. The maps told me that half the train track is not working because of maintainance and I have to get down at station X and start walking. There were hardly anyone in road at that time and it would have been super scary If I didnt have Google maps. * You often need to use an App to unlock a rental bicycle. Ofcourse there are other ways to rent a bicycle but this is much more convinent and acessible. * Need to contact emergency services but dont know/forgot the number.
  - coldtea 7y ago
    >You are right. Lot of people traveled in 20th century. But a lot more could have traveled if there was Internet in 20th century. I seriously doubt it. The main obstacle was money. Billions travelled in the 20th century up to 2005 or so. There wasn't some surge in travel associated with GPS or mobile phone availability. Rise was steady throughout the 20th century and associated with income raise (travel becoming less expensive). The main bumps are when e.g. developing economies boomed, flooding the market with more people to travel (e.g. the raise of the 1.4 billion strong Chinese travel market). https://www.roccoresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/UNWTO-Tourism-Higlights-2014-2030.png https://www.roccoresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/UNW... Rarely anyone who didn't travel didn't travel because they thought "travel is too complicated, I need a constant electronic map with me", anymore that they said on in their own country. If anything, it's today's people who can't travel without mobile/GPS, not the much more resilient people in the 20th century. In other words, it's an acquired clutch, not something people felt really lacking that prevented them from traveling abroad.
    - vishnu_ks 7y ago
      > Rarely anyone who didn't travel didn't travel because they thought "travel is too complicated, I need a constant electronic map with me", anymore that they said on in their own country. hmm. I was referring to how the Internet made it easy to plan and book a travel. Now anyone have access to information on what it takes to travel to a foreign country. Previously it was more like a blackbox. If you are from a developing country you need to apply for visa and you have to figure all that out without an Internet. You need to goto a travel agent for information, booking etc and you need to trust the agent. You don't know anyone apart from the person in the travel channel who traveled in Eruope for fun. Internet massively reduced the barriers for people traveling record. People have access to all these information for free by sitting inside their house. Ofcourse economies booming helped but I would give the Internet some credits in this as well.
bonoboTP 7y ago
I had no smartphone up until like 2012 (and even afterwards for some time I didn't have mobile data, just WiFi when available). It's sometimes inconvenient and you may "lose" quite some time for sure (e.g. miss a train because you could not check a platform change). But for sure you can manage reading off street signs, looking at maps and perhaps asking passers-by. Asking for directions used to be a very common superficial interaction even in the socially "coldest" countries and it is very rarely happening anymore. Asking for directions was also one of the first things you learned in a foreign language. For timetables you can just go and check the physical timetable at the station. Buy tickets at the station. Surely less convenient, but I'm pretty sure you'd manage, just like everyone did. It was just a few years ago.
mnm1 7y ago
T-Mobile gives one 2g data overseas. I often just use that unless I'm staying somewhere an extended amount of time or need a local still for work tethering. It's fine. Uber is slow as hell but most apps are fine (maps, text, translate, etc.)
cgh 7y ago
Your comment makes me feel old. I travelled in my early 20s ('90s-early 2000s) with no phone or internet available anywhere. There was a lot more mystery and discovery involved. You didn't know everything ahead of time. There were also a lot fewer tourists around - like, a LOT fewer. Social media and online-everything has really lowered the barrier to entry. I know this is pure r/gatekeeping but I kind of feel nostalgic for those times.

Marsymars 7y ago

My (Canadian) grandfather retired early (50-ish) and travelled extensively for ~15 years with my grandmother. I'm a bit envious of their ability to do so before the modern hoards of tourists and social media. I was a kid at the time, and they'd mail me postcards from each new place they went.

coldtea 7y ago

>She travels around with the help of maps and has been to more than 30 countries. I can personally never do this. How so? People did exactly this not just for millennia, but also throughout the 20th century, and up around 2005 or so... What's the difficult / tragic experience one has in a different country if they don't have constant internet access or GPS?

vishnu_ks 7y ago
You are right. Lot of people traveled in 20th century. But a lot more could have traveled if there was Internet in 20th century. Internet has reduced the friction to travel abroad by a lot. You know more about the world now. You can plan travel and book flight tickets, hostels and bus tickets in multiple countries by not even leaving your room from a small city in India. > What's the difficult / tragic experience one has in a different country if they don't have constant internet access or GPS? hmm. I think having an Instant access to Internet is like a super power. You feel more in control as well as save a lot of time. Some examples * Finding exchanges that gives you a good rate in a new country. Lot of exchanges just rip you off and sorting by negative reviews will help you a lot. * I think Google maps is pretty helpful especially if you are on a tight schedule. I had to get a bus late night in Budapest and had only 1 hour to reach the bus stop from hostel. I am pretty sure I could not have reached the bus stop on time if it was not for Goole maps. The maps told me that half the train track is not working because of maintainance and I have to get down at station X and start walking. There were hardly anyone in road at that time and it would have been super scary If I didnt have Google maps. * You often need to use an App to unlock a rental bicycle. Ofcourse there are other ways to rent a bicycle but this is much more convinent and acessible. * Need to contact emergency services but dont know/forgot the number.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >You are right. Lot of people traveled in 20th century. But a lot more could have traveled if there was Internet in 20th century. I seriously doubt it. The main obstacle was money. Billions travelled in the 20th century up to 2005 or so. There wasn't some surge in travel associated with GPS or mobile phone availability. Rise was steady throughout the 20th century and associated with income raise (travel becoming less expensive). The main bumps are when e.g. developing economies boomed, flooding the market with more people to travel (e.g. the raise of the 1.4 billion strong Chinese travel market). https://www.roccoresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/UNWTO-Tourism-Higlights-2014-2030.png https://www.roccoresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/UNW... Rarely anyone who didn't travel didn't travel because they thought "travel is too complicated, I need a constant electronic map with me", anymore that they said on in their own country. If anything, it's today's people who can't travel without mobile/GPS, not the much more resilient people in the 20th century. In other words, it's an acquired clutch, not something people felt really lacking that prevented them from traveling abroad.
  - vishnu_ks 7y ago
    > Rarely anyone who didn't travel didn't travel because they thought "travel is too complicated, I need a constant electronic map with me", anymore that they said on in their own country. hmm. I was referring to how the Internet made it easy to plan and book a travel. Now anyone have access to information on what it takes to travel to a foreign country. Previously it was more like a blackbox. If you are from a developing country you need to apply for visa and you have to figure all that out without an Internet. You need to goto a travel agent for information, booking etc and you need to trust the agent. You don't know anyone apart from the person in the travel channel who traveled in Eruope for fun. Internet massively reduced the barriers for people traveling record. People have access to all these information for free by sitting inside their house. Ofcourse economies booming helped but I would give the Internet some credits in this as well.

bonoboTP 7y ago

I had no smartphone up until like 2012 (and even afterwards for some time I didn't have mobile data, just WiFi when available). It's sometimes inconvenient and you may "lose" quite some time for sure (e.g. miss a train because you could not check a platform change). But for sure you can manage reading off street signs, looking at maps and perhaps asking passers-by. Asking for directions used to be a very common superficial interaction even in the socially "coldest" countries and it is very rarely happening anymore. Asking for directions was also one of the first things you learned in a foreign language. For timetables you can just go and check the physical timetable at the station. Buy tickets at the station. Surely less convenient, but I'm pretty sure you'd manage, just like everyone did. It was just a few years ago.

mnm1 7y ago

T-Mobile gives one 2g data overseas. I often just use that unless I'm staying somewhere an extended amount of time or need a local still for work tethering. It's fine. Uber is slow as hell but most apps are fine (maps, text, translate, etc.)

cgh 7y ago

Your comment makes me feel old. I travelled in my early 20s ('90s-early 2000s) with no phone or internet available anywhere. There was a lot more mystery and discovery involved. You didn't know everything ahead of time. There were also a lot fewer tourists around - like, a LOT fewer. Social media and online-everything has really lowered the barrier to entry. I know this is pure r/gatekeeping but I kind of feel nostalgic for those times.