7 ms·

Snap can blame Facebook all they want, but what they had was a feature, not a product, and then they alienated their users with the redesign. Nobody else is to

by dymk 7y ago

Snap can blame Facebook all they want, but what they had was a feature, not a product, and then they alienated their users with the redesign. Nobody else is to blame for their own stagnation then failing to reimagine their product. I mean, Snap Spectacles, really?

H8crilA 7y ago
Not really relevant for the antitrust investigation.
- dymk 7y ago
  The article is about Facebook copying features and draws a connection to Snaps subsequent downfall. I’m claiming the downfall was inevitable (no product, bad redesign, those useless spectacles), and once again Facebook is the scapegoat in all this.
  - hellomyguys 7y ago
    You do realize both of these things can be true? Snap playing a role in their issues and Facebook also participating in behaviors that are relevant to an anti-trust investigation?
    - dymk 7y ago
      I’m looking forward to the proof coming from the company that was unable to succeed because of their own ability to execute.
      - rolltiide 7y ago
        Try compartmentalizing Everyone and everything is multifaceted
  - sweezyjeezy 7y ago
    I think you should reread the article, it has very little to do with copying features. If Snap are correct then Facebook - actively discouraged IG users from discussing Snap - prevented Snap from trending on FB - used data from an acquisition Onavo to track what users did on other apps (such as Snap) Furthermore - whether or not these shady practices were the downfall of Snap does not absolve FB from doing them.
    - privateSFacct 7y ago
      I'm curious - why is facebook required to promote a competing social network? Did snap promote facebook properly on its network?
      - airstrike 7y ago
        > I'm curious - why is facebook required to promote a competing social network? They aren't required to promote, but arguably also can't actively find ways to prevent it from trending "organically" as that could ostensibly constitute an anti-competitive practice
  - hizanberg 7y ago
    Snap’s not a bankrupt Startup without product, they’re still a 23.5B company with growing market share and features Facebook has been copying hand over fist, that would be arguably be worth a lot more if FB had to come up with their own features instead of Xeroxing Snaps ideas.
    - throwaway38638 7y ago
      Copying features of your competitors and innovating on them is part of competition.
  - meowface 7y ago
    Both things seem to be true. Snap created an unsustainable business model that could be easily copied, and Facebook did a lot of highly unethical and possibly illegal things to accelerate their domination of Snap's market. If you read the article in full, there's really no defending Facebook's alleged behavior. The article doesn't even mention feature-copying, other than Zuckerberg saying "accept our buyout price or we'll copy you", but it's a single sentence in an article with a laundry list of unrelated allegations. I feel like a lot of people who dislike Snap are commenting without actually reading the article.
umvi 7y ago
Actually, I'm super, super grateful they redesigned the Android app from the ground up. Before the redesign it was a disaster that would occasionally soft-brick my camera, mandating a reboot.
- srbby 7y ago
  Seems like a problem with your camera hardware and/or software. An unprivileged, user-space app should not be able to soft-brick a hardware part.
  - umvi 7y ago
    My phone is a Nexus 5X. All I know is that the old Snapchat app would occasionally soft-brick my camera such that no other application (including the camera app) could use it until I rebooted my phone. I confirmed with multiple experiments that Snapchat was the culprit. After the redesign, the problem went away.
    - srbby 7y ago
      I remember the same problem in a Nexus 4. And Google said they couldn't fix it because it was a bug in a Qualcomm driver and they had no access to the source code. I think the redesign fixed that because Snapchat no longer takes pictures with the camera. Instead, they take screenshots of the camera preview.
      - werber 7y ago
        Is that true across the board or just on Android?
        srbby 7y ago
        If such a problem arose on iOS, Apple would patch it. Android manufacturers don't usually have that option, as they sometimes don't even have the code to the drivers.
    - 7y ago
menacingly 7y ago
the feature/product dichotomy is a subtle gradient that ultimately means nothing. It's only ever seems poignant with the benefit of hindsight. It's sort of like saying "well, the way the market shook out is the way the market shook out"
- yashap 7y ago
  Indeed, you could say the same thing about IG vs FB, it’s an empty criticism. Also, curious why we always see these “Snap must regret not selling to FB for $7 billion” comments parroted so often? Snap currently has a market cap of almost $24 billion, and it’s stock price has nearly doubled since the start of 2019. Still not quite at their IPO price, but close. Seems like they should be very happy they went the IPO route?

by dymk 7y ago

H8crilA 7y ago

Not really relevant for the antitrust investigation.

dymk 7y ago
The article is about Facebook copying features and draws a connection to Snaps subsequent downfall. I’m claiming the downfall was inevitable (no product, bad redesign, those useless spectacles), and once again Facebook is the scapegoat in all this.
- hellomyguys 7y ago
  You do realize both of these things can be true? Snap playing a role in their issues and Facebook also participating in behaviors that are relevant to an anti-trust investigation?
  - dymk 7y ago
    I’m looking forward to the proof coming from the company that was unable to succeed because of their own ability to execute.
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      Try compartmentalizing Everyone and everything is multifaceted
- sweezyjeezy 7y ago
  I think you should reread the article, it has very little to do with copying features. If Snap are correct then Facebook - actively discouraged IG users from discussing Snap - prevented Snap from trending on FB - used data from an acquisition Onavo to track what users did on other apps (such as Snap) Furthermore - whether or not these shady practices were the downfall of Snap does not absolve FB from doing them.
  - privateSFacct 7y ago
    I'm curious - why is facebook required to promote a competing social network? Did snap promote facebook properly on its network?
    - airstrike 7y ago
      > I'm curious - why is facebook required to promote a competing social network? They aren't required to promote, but arguably also can't actively find ways to prevent it from trending "organically" as that could ostensibly constitute an anti-competitive practice
- hizanberg 7y ago
  Snap’s not a bankrupt Startup without product, they’re still a 23.5B company with growing market share and features Facebook has been copying hand over fist, that would be arguably be worth a lot more if FB had to come up with their own features instead of Xeroxing Snaps ideas.
  - throwaway38638 7y ago
    Copying features of your competitors and innovating on them is part of competition.
- meowface 7y ago
  Both things seem to be true. Snap created an unsustainable business model that could be easily copied, and Facebook did a lot of highly unethical and possibly illegal things to accelerate their domination of Snap's market. If you read the article in full, there's really no defending Facebook's alleged behavior. The article doesn't even mention feature-copying, other than Zuckerberg saying "accept our buyout price or we'll copy you", but it's a single sentence in an article with a laundry list of unrelated allegations. I feel like a lot of people who dislike Snap are commenting without actually reading the article.

umvi 7y ago

Actually, I'm super, super grateful they redesigned the Android app from the ground up. Before the redesign it was a disaster that would occasionally soft-brick my camera, mandating a reboot.

srbby 7y ago
Seems like a problem with your camera hardware and/or software. An unprivileged, user-space app should not be able to soft-brick a hardware part.
- umvi 7y ago
  My phone is a Nexus 5X. All I know is that the old Snapchat app would occasionally soft-brick my camera such that no other application (including the camera app) could use it until I rebooted my phone. I confirmed with multiple experiments that Snapchat was the culprit. After the redesign, the problem went away.
  - srbby 7y ago
    I remember the same problem in a Nexus 4. And Google said they couldn't fix it because it was a bug in a Qualcomm driver and they had no access to the source code. I think the redesign fixed that because Snapchat no longer takes pictures with the camera. Instead, they take screenshots of the camera preview.
    - werber 7y ago
      Is that true across the board or just on Android?
      - srbby 7y ago
        If such a problem arose on iOS, Apple would patch it. Android manufacturers don't usually have that option, as they sometimes don't even have the code to the drivers.
  - 7y ago

menacingly 7y ago

the feature/product dichotomy is a subtle gradient that ultimately means nothing. It's only ever seems poignant with the benefit of hindsight. It's sort of like saying "well, the way the market shook out is the way the market shook out"

yashap 7y ago
Indeed, you could say the same thing about IG vs FB, it’s an empty criticism. Also, curious why we always see these “Snap must regret not selling to FB for $7 billion” comments parroted so often? Snap currently has a market cap of almost $24 billion, and it’s stock price has nearly doubled since the start of 2019. Still not quite at their IPO price, but close. Seems like they should be very happy they went the IPO route?