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> But you could issue transferable denominated in bitcoin or gold. Correct. As a matter of fact, this already exists: some Swiss Bank has started issuing certi

> But you could issue transferable denominated in bitcoin or gold. Correct. As a matter of fact, this already exists: some Swiss Bank has started issuing certificates of ownership where the underlying is BTC.

eru 7y ago
Interesting. Do you have a link? I guess they are operating a 100% reserve system? My prediction: bitcoin will become successful iff it evolves a fractional reserve ecosystem. Where successful means something like it's being used not just for speculation, but routinely for eg making every-day transactions. (Originally, I was only going to predict fractional reserve as a necessary condition for success. But thinking about it, I realized that no-one would bother with the legal complexities in the non-success case.)
- DennisP 7y ago
  If it turns into a fractional reserve system, it'll be just another system of control, run on centralized databases with as much surveillance as today. The only way to achieve the level of freedom Antonopoulos is talking about is with real scaling, so people can directly use cryptocurrency in everyday transactions.
  - aserafini 7y ago
    I’m not sure about this. The fractional reserve we have today is based on a system where the underlying monetary base can be created out of thin air. A Bitcoin based fractional reserve would be based on something which fundamentally can’t be created at the whim of any single government at the base monetary level. So yes, you could still over promise Bitcoin but the difference is you cannot be bailed out on a whim. This is an important distinction that would lead to (IMO) healthy outcomes like banks genuinely going bankrupt if they can’t get a ‘real’ bail out of hard Bitcoin instead of bail out socialised by future tax payers’ money and inflation.
    - DennisP 7y ago
      But what the article talks about isn't money printing for bailouts. It's about the government's ability to monitor transactions, freeze accounts and confiscate funds.
- ur-whale 7y ago
  > Interesting. Do you have a link? I guess they are operating a 100% reserve system? https://structuredproducts-ch.leonteq.com/valor/36663487 https://structuredproducts-ch.leonteq.com/valor/36663487 They claim that the underlying is 100% in custody, yes, but as with all paper, who's to really know in the end... They certainly don't provide any sort of crypto verification mechanism so the bearer can verify that the underlying actually exist and is uniquely bound to the paper. [edit]: nevermind. now that I actually look at it, it's cash-settled.

eru 7y ago

Interesting. Do you have a link? I guess they are operating a 100% reserve system? My prediction: bitcoin will become successful iff it evolves a fractional reserve ecosystem. Where successful means something like it's being used not just for speculation, but routinely for eg making every-day transactions. (Originally, I was only going to predict fractional reserve as a necessary condition for success. But thinking about it, I realized that no-one would bother with the legal complexities in the non-success case.)

DennisP 7y ago
If it turns into a fractional reserve system, it'll be just another system of control, run on centralized databases with as much surveillance as today. The only way to achieve the level of freedom Antonopoulos is talking about is with real scaling, so people can directly use cryptocurrency in everyday transactions.
- aserafini 7y ago
  I’m not sure about this. The fractional reserve we have today is based on a system where the underlying monetary base can be created out of thin air. A Bitcoin based fractional reserve would be based on something which fundamentally can’t be created at the whim of any single government at the base monetary level. So yes, you could still over promise Bitcoin but the difference is you cannot be bailed out on a whim. This is an important distinction that would lead to (IMO) healthy outcomes like banks genuinely going bankrupt if they can’t get a ‘real’ bail out of hard Bitcoin instead of bail out socialised by future tax payers’ money and inflation.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    But what the article talks about isn't money printing for bailouts. It's about the government's ability to monitor transactions, freeze accounts and confiscate funds.
ur-whale 7y ago
> Interesting. Do you have a link? I guess they are operating a 100% reserve system? https://structuredproducts-ch.leonteq.com/valor/36663487 https://structuredproducts-ch.leonteq.com/valor/36663487 They claim that the underlying is 100% in custody, yes, but as with all paper, who's to really know in the end... They certainly don't provide any sort of crypto verification mechanism so the bearer can verify that the underlying actually exist and is uniquely bound to the paper. [edit]: nevermind. now that I actually look at it, it's cash-settled.