6 ms·

The Showdown at the Window Seat

19 points by prostoalex 7y ago

helloindia 7y ago
Reminded me of this video of two bus passengers having a silent dispute over window. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQqeTEYBFfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQqeTEYBFfM
chooseaname 7y ago
> Mr. Hayes thinks it’s a matter of airplane etiquette: Passengers should go with the collective good. “If everyone else has it closed, why do you have to be the one person?” he says. “I personally think it’s a bit selfish.” I think some people are just wired like this. I think that everyone else having it closed gives them more reason to leave theirs open. Personally, I love looking out the windows the whole flight. I get to turn my brain off and just look at clouds. That being said, I was raised to be aware of others' needs and if I sense it bothers someone I draw the shade down.
- isostatic 7y ago
  If there's glare on someone's screen or in their face then sure, I'll lower the blind. Otherwise no. If you care so much, book the window seat yourself. If you want a dark cabin, book a plane where you control the cabin.
pintxo 7y ago
> The FAA has no regulations on shades up or down, though many countries require windows in exit rows to be clear for takeoff and landing, when an accident could jam a closed shade and prevent passengers from seeing if they were opening an emergency door into fire. Is this for real? I was under the impression that SOP is, all shades up during takeoff and landing, for safety reasons. I this mandated in Europe, or do I use a skewed selection of airlines as this has been enforced on every flights in the last years?
- weaksauce 7y ago
  the FAA not taking a stance doesn't mean that the airlines can't mandate it individually. I thought it was an FAA thing to have the shades up during landing to let in light during a crash to let people see inside the plane but I guess that's not a regulation.
- kingbirdy 7y ago
  I've been told to raise the shades in Mexico & Peru as well, but for the US they don't care.
amos19870630 7y ago
I've been flying for many years and I always choose the window seat for the view, and for the best reading light. There is nothing like natural light on a printed page, punctuated by the visual glory of the earth and sky sliding by.
krono 7y ago
Contender for the biggest non-issue of the year award. You have a problem with the window screen position and aren't under specific instructions from the flight crew to keep it in its current state? Speak up to your fellow-passengers and find a solution together. It's really not that difficult.
- wyclif 7y ago
  I agree with all you say, but it's a reflection of a new generation of travellers who don't want to interact with other passengers. I've seen the effect over and over again when flying. More and more of the effort of flight attendants is being shifted from serving travellers to acting as a buffer and mediating disputes between passengers. There's another story on HN now about Amtrak shutting down their dining cars. I read the story, and one of the reasons they are ending dining car service is because when they got focus group feedback from millennials they found that most of them didn't want to sit next to a stranger while dining. I find the fact that we are more digitally connected than ever before but correspondingly more socially isolated quite troubling.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    > I find the fact that we are more digitally connected than ever before but correspondingly more socially isolated quite troubling. Those two would seem to go hand-in-hand naturally to me.
  - krono 7y ago
    Interesting insight yeah, I hadn't yet looked at it that way. I was thinking more along the lines of people these days expecting an unrealistic level of comfort for what they're paying (not just in transit but also theatres etc.). Social discomfort hooks into that though. I suppose its also true that a lot of people would sooner purchase in-flight WiFi and complain about the window screen position on social media, than talk about it to the person who sits in the window seat.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    And in related news there's apparently a loneliness epidemic.
chrisseaton 7y ago
Wow people are petty. I think you’re never going to have a good experience in economy - might as well just go to sleep for the duration and not worry about what anyone else decides to do. I don’t know why people choose to struggle to eat, read, or watch videos.
- Vaslo 7y ago
  Unfortunately, there is a large group of the population like myself that is cursed to never be able to sleep on an airplane.
- robotron 7y ago
  I can't sleep when the window shades are open...
  - evgen 7y ago
    So buy an eye mask and now it is not a problem.
    - Angostura 7y ago
      Or just have a bit of consideration and leave the blind down when the people around you are sleeping.
    - notacoward 7y ago
      Not everyone finds eye masks comfortable. Different people respond differently to all kinds of stimuli, so "now it is not a problem" is not necessarily true. My wife can't sleep without an eye mask and earplugs, even at home. My daughter can't abide either. Some people can't stand the vibration on a plane, even if they can block out noise. Some people find the seats unbearable. Suggestions are great, but assuming people haven't already heard them or that their outcome would be the same isn't particularly helpful. It comes across as preemptively dismissing other concerns they might have.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
tyingq 7y ago
The bigger problem is the middle seats on aircraft with 3+ adjoining seats. Your seat mates almost always commandeer the armrests, and if you're seated with large people, it's miserable. I've seen a few different seat configurations that fix this, but there isn't really much incentive for the airlines to adopt them.
- ericmay 7y ago
  My rule here is that the middle seat always gets the arm rests because they don’t have the window to lean on or the outside isle for space.
  - tyingq 7y ago
    That's a great rule, but often an awkward conversation that can end in an even more miserable flight.
Jaruzel 7y ago
From the Article: Mr. Hyman thinks the power breakdown for airplane seating goes like this: - The window seat passenger gets to control the window shade. - The middle-seat passenger gets the armrests. - The aisle-seat flier gets the most freedom of movement. Basically it's this: If you want to control the shade, book the Window seat. Simple.
- jen20 7y ago
  The most annoying outcome there is when you book a window seat, only to find no window thanks to a plane switch - at which point it becomes worse than a middle.
  - meddlepal 7y ago
    Advantage of a windowless window seat is still ability to rest head at an angle against the wall. I can't sleep when I'm forced to sit straight up, I tend to fall-forward and then snap awake and catch myself. Being able to put my head against something is the difference between sleeping like a baby on the flight and being awake from coast to coast.
rr-geil-j 7y ago
Probably another US-specific issue... I am not really a frequent traveler but I've accumulated around 10 legs of flights from Asia to Europe and within each continent. I do not remember encountering anything similar.
sandworm101 7y ago
Dont worry, windows on planes will go away soon enough. They make planes heavier and are going to be phased out. The replacements, screens, will be a great medium to further monitize the cattle. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/emirates-windowless-planes/index.html https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/emirates-windowless-plane... https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/passenger-planes-without-windows-could-4512820 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/passenger-planes-wi...
mikeholler 7y ago
When I read any article like this I always go back to Louis CK's "Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy" bit. Like, c'mon people, can't you just let someone happily experience the miracle of flight while you watch your downloaded Netflix shows? Is that so hard? If you're trying to sleep and the light bothers you, bring something to cover your eyes with. If you can't sleep with something on your face, maybe practice a bit before you fly. I personally have a _very_ hard time sleeping on moving objects of any kind. I have to be at my wits' end of sleep deprivation to be able to do this. I would not think of suggesting a bus driver stop so I can get my winks -- it's _my_ problem, and I'll deal with it as such. The sense of entitlement in this article is huge, and this is also one of the most first-world problems ever. Almost every airline except the budget airlines (Frontier, Spirit, Southwest) make it possible to book a window seat at no extra cost. If it's this much of a problem to you, you should get a window seat yourself to grant yourself that control.
archeantus 7y ago
My wife and I were on a 10 hour flight to Tokyo earlier this year and we happened to sit next to a lady with unbelievable resolve to keep the window open. It was a very big plane and in our portion of the plane, every other window was closed (several dozen). We debated asking her to shut it, but decided she must have her reasons. For a flight that was supposed to have a sleep segment, we were quite grumpy to realize this wasn’t going to be possible.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  Didn't the airline provide blindfolds?
- r00fus 7y ago
  Why didn't you just ask her? It's not "resolve" if she doesn't know it bothers you.

19 points by prostoalex 7y ago

Reminded me of this video of two bus passengers having a silent dispute over window. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQqeTEYBFfM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQqeTEYBFfM

chooseaname 7y ago

> Mr. Hayes thinks it’s a matter of airplane etiquette: Passengers should go with the collective good. “If everyone else has it closed, why do you have to be the one person?” he says. “I personally think it’s a bit selfish.” I think some people are just wired like this. I think that everyone else having it closed gives them more reason to leave theirs open. Personally, I love looking out the windows the whole flight. I get to turn my brain off and just look at clouds. That being said, I was raised to be aware of others' needs and if I sense it bothers someone I draw the shade down.

isostatic 7y ago
If there's glare on someone's screen or in their face then sure, I'll lower the blind. Otherwise no. If you care so much, book the window seat yourself. If you want a dark cabin, book a plane where you control the cabin.

pintxo 7y ago

> The FAA has no regulations on shades up or down, though many countries require windows in exit rows to be clear for takeoff and landing, when an accident could jam a closed shade and prevent passengers from seeing if they were opening an emergency door into fire. Is this for real? I was under the impression that SOP is, all shades up during takeoff and landing, for safety reasons. I this mandated in Europe, or do I use a skewed selection of airlines as this has been enforced on every flights in the last years?

weaksauce 7y ago
the FAA not taking a stance doesn't mean that the airlines can't mandate it individually. I thought it was an FAA thing to have the shades up during landing to let in light during a crash to let people see inside the plane but I guess that's not a regulation.
kingbirdy 7y ago
I've been told to raise the shades in Mexico & Peru as well, but for the US they don't care.

amos19870630 7y ago

I've been flying for many years and I always choose the window seat for the view, and for the best reading light. There is nothing like natural light on a printed page, punctuated by the visual glory of the earth and sky sliding by.

krono 7y ago

Contender for the biggest non-issue of the year award. You have a problem with the window screen position and aren't under specific instructions from the flight crew to keep it in its current state? Speak up to your fellow-passengers and find a solution together. It's really not that difficult.

wyclif 7y ago
I agree with all you say, but it's a reflection of a new generation of travellers who don't want to interact with other passengers. I've seen the effect over and over again when flying. More and more of the effort of flight attendants is being shifted from serving travellers to acting as a buffer and mediating disputes between passengers. There's another story on HN now about Amtrak shutting down their dining cars. I read the story, and one of the reasons they are ending dining car service is because when they got focus group feedback from millennials they found that most of them didn't want to sit next to a stranger while dining. I find the fact that we are more digitally connected than ever before but correspondingly more socially isolated quite troubling.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  > I find the fact that we are more digitally connected than ever before but correspondingly more socially isolated quite troubling. Those two would seem to go hand-in-hand naturally to me.
- krono 7y ago
  Interesting insight yeah, I hadn't yet looked at it that way. I was thinking more along the lines of people these days expecting an unrealistic level of comfort for what they're paying (not just in transit but also theatres etc.). Social discomfort hooks into that though. I suppose its also true that a lot of people would sooner purchase in-flight WiFi and complain about the window screen position on social media, than talk about it to the person who sits in the window seat.
- Angostura 7y ago
  And in related news there's apparently a loneliness epidemic.

chrisseaton 7y ago

Wow people are petty. I think you’re never going to have a good experience in economy - might as well just go to sleep for the duration and not worry about what anyone else decides to do. I don’t know why people choose to struggle to eat, read, or watch videos.

Vaslo 7y ago
Unfortunately, there is a large group of the population like myself that is cursed to never be able to sleep on an airplane.
robotron 7y ago
I can't sleep when the window shades are open...
- evgen 7y ago
  So buy an eye mask and now it is not a problem.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    Or just have a bit of consideration and leave the blind down when the people around you are sleeping.
  - notacoward 7y ago
    Not everyone finds eye masks comfortable. Different people respond differently to all kinds of stimuli, so "now it is not a problem" is not necessarily true. My wife can't sleep without an eye mask and earplugs, even at home. My daughter can't abide either. Some people can't stand the vibration on a plane, even if they can block out noise. Some people find the seats unbearable. Suggestions are great, but assuming people haven't already heard them or that their outcome would be the same isn't particularly helpful. It comes across as preemptively dismissing other concerns they might have.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago

tyingq 7y ago

The bigger problem is the middle seats on aircraft with 3+ adjoining seats. Your seat mates almost always commandeer the armrests, and if you're seated with large people, it's miserable. I've seen a few different seat configurations that fix this, but there isn't really much incentive for the airlines to adopt them.

ericmay 7y ago
My rule here is that the middle seat always gets the arm rests because they don’t have the window to lean on or the outside isle for space.
- tyingq 7y ago
  That's a great rule, but often an awkward conversation that can end in an even more miserable flight.

Jaruzel 7y ago

From the Article: Mr. Hyman thinks the power breakdown for airplane seating goes like this: - The window seat passenger gets to control the window shade. - The middle-seat passenger gets the armrests. - The aisle-seat flier gets the most freedom of movement. Basically it's this: If you want to control the shade, book the Window seat. Simple.

jen20 7y ago
The most annoying outcome there is when you book a window seat, only to find no window thanks to a plane switch - at which point it becomes worse than a middle.
- meddlepal 7y ago
  Advantage of a windowless window seat is still ability to rest head at an angle against the wall. I can't sleep when I'm forced to sit straight up, I tend to fall-forward and then snap awake and catch myself. Being able to put my head against something is the difference between sleeping like a baby on the flight and being awake from coast to coast.

rr-geil-j 7y ago

Probably another US-specific issue... I am not really a frequent traveler but I've accumulated around 10 legs of flights from Asia to Europe and within each continent. I do not remember encountering anything similar.

sandworm101 7y ago

Dont worry, windows on planes will go away soon enough. They make planes heavier and are going to be phased out. The replacements, screens, will be a great medium to further monitize the cattle. https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/emirates-windowless-planes/index.html https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/emirates-windowless-plane... https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/passenger-planes-without-windows-could-4512820 https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/passenger-planes-wi...

mikeholler 7y ago

When I read any article like this I always go back to Louis CK's "Everything's Amazing and Nobody's Happy" bit. Like, c'mon people, can't you just let someone happily experience the miracle of flight while you watch your downloaded Netflix shows? Is that so hard? If you're trying to sleep and the light bothers you, bring something to cover your eyes with. If you can't sleep with something on your face, maybe practice a bit before you fly. I personally have a _very_ hard time sleeping on moving objects of any kind. I have to be at my wits' end of sleep deprivation to be able to do this. I would not think of suggesting a bus driver stop so I can get my winks -- it's _my_ problem, and I'll deal with it as such. The sense of entitlement in this article is huge, and this is also one of the most first-world problems ever. Almost every airline except the budget airlines (Frontier, Spirit, Southwest) make it possible to book a window seat at no extra cost. If it's this much of a problem to you, you should get a window seat yourself to grant yourself that control.

archeantus 7y ago

My wife and I were on a 10 hour flight to Tokyo earlier this year and we happened to sit next to a lady with unbelievable resolve to keep the window open. It was a very big plane and in our portion of the plane, every other window was closed (several dozen). We debated asking her to shut it, but decided she must have her reasons. For a flight that was supposed to have a sleep segment, we were quite grumpy to realize this wasn’t going to be possible.

AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
Didn't the airline provide blindfolds?
r00fus 7y ago
Why didn't you just ask her? It's not "resolve" if she doesn't know it bothers you.