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You’re argument is a metaphoric one; yes we do change and evolve as people. Whereas the GPs point was a literal one; if you upload your consciousness the “physi

You’re argument is a metaphoric one; yes we do change and evolve as people. Whereas the GPs point was a literal one; if you upload your consciousness the “physical you” will still quite literally die. The uploaded version is really more of an interactive Egyptian statue designed to immortalise yourself from the perspective of others rather than you literally living past death. This is why I don’t see the point of arguments such as that. I would still die. So I might as well survive my memory in more meaningful ways like building a family. If I’m forgotten about 100 years after my death then that’s just the natural order of things and it’s not like I’ll be around to care anyway.

c22 7y ago
The "physical you" changes too. Your cells are constantly being replaced resulting in a "whole new physical you" roughly every year. [0] "You" must be a state. If carried to a complex enough substrate my state may continue while the old substrate dies. What concern to me is the nature of this substrate so long as it adequately exists to run my state machine? It is true that the substrate holding my state may have its operations sabotaged to update my state in strange non-standard ways, but this appears also to be the situation now, in the physical realm. There are untold conditions I can apply to my body and brain that would have marked affect on the unfolding state of my mind. The concept of multiple mes is confusing, as would be the potential to merge mes and access memories of my own "death(s)". Techniques for confirming consciousness in others are largely non-existent. These are deep and still open questions that cannot be so easily dismissed with a claim that all that's artificial must be artifice. [0] https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-for-most-of-the-atoms-in-your-body-to-be-replaced-by-others https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-for-most-of-the-...
- pushpop 7y ago
  That’s pretty much what the GP said as well and platitudes about how we are constantly changing are fine but change isn’t the same as copy and destroy; which is what the upload process would be. That distinction is critically important. You can change an original and it will still be the original. But taking a copy and making that your primary copy means destroying the original. Which is fine if you’re talking purely about dumb digital bits like we normally do. However when those bits become self-aware programs executing, destroying the original is a literal death sentence. I guess a prolonged “merger” with the internet where the artificial mediums were used, at first, as an external processing unit. Then gradually you switch over. I guess that might solve the problem of “switching off” the original. However that’s not how the process is typically described.
tim333 7y ago
>The uploaded version is really more of an interactive Egyptian statue Well that remains to be seen. It could be more than that. If you think how go playing programs have gone from rubbish to beating all humans it seems likely a future upload of a human could have abilities beyond us lot.
- pushpop 7y ago
  I was talking more in terms of it being a memorial to your living self rather than talking about it’s capabilities. I fully expect we’ll eventually hit the technological singularity.
kwhitefoot 7y ago
So you agree with Ellen May Ngwethu (Cassini Division) that uploads are flatlines even if they exhibit free will and have all the memories of their original? I recommend anyone interested in this subject to read The Cassini Division by Ken McLeod and Accelerando by Charles Stross.

c22 7y ago

The "physical you" changes too. Your cells are constantly being replaced resulting in a "whole new physical you" roughly every year. [0] "You" must be a state. If carried to a complex enough substrate my state may continue while the old substrate dies. What concern to me is the nature of this substrate so long as it adequately exists to run my state machine? It is true that the substrate holding my state may have its operations sabotaged to update my state in strange non-standard ways, but this appears also to be the situation now, in the physical realm. There are untold conditions I can apply to my body and brain that would have marked affect on the unfolding state of my mind. The concept of multiple mes is confusing, as would be the potential to merge mes and access memories of my own "death(s)". Techniques for confirming consciousness in others are largely non-existent. These are deep and still open questions that cannot be so easily dismissed with a claim that all that's artificial must be artifice. [0] https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-for-most-of-the-atoms-in-your-body-to-be-replaced-by-others https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-for-most-of-the-...

pushpop 7y ago
That’s pretty much what the GP said as well and platitudes about how we are constantly changing are fine but change isn’t the same as copy and destroy; which is what the upload process would be. That distinction is critically important. You can change an original and it will still be the original. But taking a copy and making that your primary copy means destroying the original. Which is fine if you’re talking purely about dumb digital bits like we normally do. However when those bits become self-aware programs executing, destroying the original is a literal death sentence. I guess a prolonged “merger” with the internet where the artificial mediums were used, at first, as an external processing unit. Then gradually you switch over. I guess that might solve the problem of “switching off” the original. However that’s not how the process is typically described.

tim333 7y ago

>The uploaded version is really more of an interactive Egyptian statue Well that remains to be seen. It could be more than that. If you think how go playing programs have gone from rubbish to beating all humans it seems likely a future upload of a human could have abilities beyond us lot.

pushpop 7y ago
I was talking more in terms of it being a memorial to your living self rather than talking about it’s capabilities. I fully expect we’ll eventually hit the technological singularity.

kwhitefoot 7y ago

So you agree with Ellen May Ngwethu (Cassini Division) that uploads are flatlines even if they exhibit free will and have all the memories of their original? I recommend anyone interested in this subject to read The Cassini Division by Ken McLeod and Accelerando by Charles Stross.