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> Separately weird is that these cloud giants make tons of contributions to open source In some cases a cloud provider makes millions of dollars from a particu

> Separately weird is that these cloud giants make tons of contributions to open source In some cases a cloud provider makes millions of dollars from a particular open source project and gives nothing back to it. This is the behavior that concerns many. It is also easy to see this as against the spirit of the GPL license, even if projects should switch to AGPL if that is really the case.

skybrian 7y ago
It's open source, so you can "pay it forward" by contributing to other open source projects. There is no expectation you contribute back to each project you use.
cameronbrown 7y ago
If Amazon makes millions selling MongoDB, then aren't they just promoting MongoDB's ecosystem and tool development? The same way it's good for the MySQL (and broader SQL-based DB) ecosystem because new tools will be built around these systems' interfaces. Sure, they should contribute back, but it's not like they won't be indirectly encouraging others to contribute instead.
- JetSpiegel 7y ago
  Should mom-and-pop computer shops just pirate Windows? After all, they are just promoting Microsoft's ecosystem. If the license requires contribution (code for GPL, cash for Windows), abide by the license. Of course, if some companies give away their code using non freedom-preserving licenses and get cannibalized by other larger companies, it's just the free market punishing the ignorant.
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    > Should mom-and-pop computer shops just pirate Windows? After all, they are just promoting Microsoft's ecosystem. Of course not, but I'd argue Windows, Photoshop and the like are more popular because of pirates who went on to use the software professionally because, yes, they are promoting the ecosystem. Just think of the number of Windows app developers who developed upon a pirated copy.
prepend 7y ago
Maybe not to a particular project but I don’t know any “cloud giants” without big OSS contribution footprints- Amazon, Microsoft, Google all have lots of open source projects and contribs. I don’t care to measure OSS karma but these aren’t people always taking and never giving. I don’t think this is against the spirit of the GPL license and that’s why there is AGPL. The companies complaining here aren’t GPL anyway. Although I think the opinion that this is against GPL is wrong, I kind of understand it. But it’s loco that it’s against MIT/BSD/ASL.
- ClumsyPilot 7y ago
  The whole problem is that Amazon contributes very little, if at all, and frequently creates closed source forks of projects
  - prepend 7y ago
    Amazon contributes a ton [0]. Contribs in most major projects and 1600+ GitHub projects. Technically their fork of ES is more open than the software they forked. I’m not sure what is appropriate to consider “very little” but Amazon is a direct contributor and member of the Linux Foundation. What’s an acceptable level of participation? [0] https://aws.amazon.com/opensource/ https://aws.amazon.com/opensource/
  - stevenicr 7y ago
    I hadn't considered Amazon in this yet, getting this far I was wondering how much GoDaddy has helped with Wordpress or any of it's plugins and such.. It's bee a while, but last I checked they were doing a lot with it and doing some exclusive things perhaps. I see google has been doing some things with wordpress, but I don't trust them and their contributions concern me a lot - working on plugins and themes is fine, but nudging the core would wordpress is a big thing, Automattic does not listen to the little people who use WP as much as I'd like - seeing heavyweights spending time around the base makes me glad there are forks of WP. far as I remember another big co using mostly WP and I have not seen much from them for contributing back, some place like squarespace or wiz or similar? OF course I have not been looking specifically for plugins and such created by them, and maybe they have contributed to the core - I would not recognize any of the names from them in the list of contributors with releases I have seen.
deleted 7y ago
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skybrian 7y ago

It's open source, so you can "pay it forward" by contributing to other open source projects. There is no expectation you contribute back to each project you use.

cameronbrown 7y ago

If Amazon makes millions selling MongoDB, then aren't they just promoting MongoDB's ecosystem and tool development? The same way it's good for the MySQL (and broader SQL-based DB) ecosystem because new tools will be built around these systems' interfaces. Sure, they should contribute back, but it's not like they won't be indirectly encouraging others to contribute instead.

JetSpiegel 7y ago
Should mom-and-pop computer shops just pirate Windows? After all, they are just promoting Microsoft's ecosystem. If the license requires contribution (code for GPL, cash for Windows), abide by the license. Of course, if some companies give away their code using non freedom-preserving licenses and get cannibalized by other larger companies, it's just the free market punishing the ignorant.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  > Should mom-and-pop computer shops just pirate Windows? After all, they are just promoting Microsoft's ecosystem. Of course not, but I'd argue Windows, Photoshop and the like are more popular because of pirates who went on to use the software professionally because, yes, they are promoting the ecosystem. Just think of the number of Windows app developers who developed upon a pirated copy.

prepend 7y ago

Maybe not to a particular project but I don’t know any “cloud giants” without big OSS contribution footprints- Amazon, Microsoft, Google all have lots of open source projects and contribs. I don’t care to measure OSS karma but these aren’t people always taking and never giving. I don’t think this is against the spirit of the GPL license and that’s why there is AGPL. The companies complaining here aren’t GPL anyway. Although I think the opinion that this is against GPL is wrong, I kind of understand it. But it’s loco that it’s against MIT/BSD/ASL.

ClumsyPilot 7y ago
The whole problem is that Amazon contributes very little, if at all, and frequently creates closed source forks of projects
- prepend 7y ago
  Amazon contributes a ton [0]. Contribs in most major projects and 1600+ GitHub projects. Technically their fork of ES is more open than the software they forked. I’m not sure what is appropriate to consider “very little” but Amazon is a direct contributor and member of the Linux Foundation. What’s an acceptable level of participation? [0] https://aws.amazon.com/opensource/ https://aws.amazon.com/opensource/
- stevenicr 7y ago
  I hadn't considered Amazon in this yet, getting this far I was wondering how much GoDaddy has helped with Wordpress or any of it's plugins and such.. It's bee a while, but last I checked they were doing a lot with it and doing some exclusive things perhaps. I see google has been doing some things with wordpress, but I don't trust them and their contributions concern me a lot - working on plugins and themes is fine, but nudging the core would wordpress is a big thing, Automattic does not listen to the little people who use WP as much as I'd like - seeing heavyweights spending time around the base makes me glad there are forks of WP. far as I remember another big co using mostly WP and I have not seen much from them for contributing back, some place like squarespace or wiz or similar? OF course I have not been looking specifically for plugins and such created by them, and maybe they have contributed to the core - I would not recognize any of the names from them in the list of contributors with releases I have seen.

deleted 7y ago

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