8 ms·

This is why at the end of the day come what may the state must die. Technology won't stop advancing, and if it's possible the state will push it with the exact

This is why at the end of the day come what may the state must die. Technology won't stop advancing, and if it's possible the state will push it with the exact arguments you just modded correctly. It's simply too dangerous to allow that level of control to exist in the hands of a proven malevolent actor that will use it to ensure the extension and maintenance of its power. That power must be seen for the intolerable burden it's becoming before that point and destroyed, replaced with other structures which have no right to make any such unreasonable intrusions.

point78 7y ago
So you prefer to go back to kings and emperors? Without the state we will all be slaves to someone.
- Kenji 7y ago
  Nice strawman. Citation needed.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
xg15 7y ago
And what would make CEOs of private corporations any more likely to deal with this power responsibly? At least government agencies are in theory bound to laws, moral obligations and a democratic process. Meanwhile, private entities don't even have to pretend to work in anyone else's interest than their own. And "you don't have to buy it" is no excuse. If you seriosly want to abolish the state completely, then the same problems that are currently solved by public infrastructure will still exist. You'll be just as unable to opt-out of private roads are you are currently unable to opt-out of public roads. Of course we're actually talking about chips in your brain, not roads. So good luck opting out of that.
- etherael 7y ago
  > And what would make CEOs of private corporations any more likely to deal with this power responsibly? The same reason none of the previous quotes apply to actors without political power. They do not have the ability to compel people to surrender to unlimited search on penalty of death. This is only reserved and pursued by holders of political authority. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_of_Political_Authority https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_of_Political_Aut... Removing the duty to obey and the right to coerce is the only solution to this problem in the long term. Anything less and they will keep pushing for it loudly and outright doing it as long as they believe they can get away with it. Which, let's be honest in reference to the way rubber stamping of anything that is requested in the name of national security, is basically always, in practice.
  - xg15 7y ago
    > They do not have the ability to compel people to surrender to unlimited search on penalty of death. This is only reserved and pursued by holders of political authority. If I run the company that controls peoples' goddamn brain implants, I can conduct unlimited searches or perform arbitrary death sentences at the click of a button.
    - etherael 7y ago
      Not "get them installed". And if the above remains true that's a button they're not going to press, period.
      - xg15 7y ago
        Oh, there are a lot of options to make people install them. The easiest being, make it desirable to have one. If smartphones are any indication, people would either straight-up not know about the issues with control/surveillance or have them as one factor of many to trade-off against. And there are likely lots of benefits that brain implants could offer. If we go full sci-fi, some things they could enable: - Perfect memory (thanks to digital storage, built-in or in the cloud). - A perfect sense of location (thanks to built-in GPS and a direct uplink to a Maps-like service). - Automation of tedious mental tasks (thanks to a bult-in scripting engine). - Perfect control over your emotions. - The ability to record and replay any experience. - Telepathic communication. - Taking part in fully immersive virtual worlds. - Seamless interaction with electronic devices, to a point where they bahave and feel like a literal part of your body. - etc etc. So if you're a rational consumer, your choice is to have all of that and more - or to throw it all away, based on the seemingly remote possibility that the company could monitor or manipulate your thoughts or make you jump out of the nearest window. And the company is giving their strongest pinkie-promise that they would never do such things. Even if you stay strong, if enough people take up the offer, network effects will kick in and make "not installing" an increasingly difficult choice: - Employers will take the enhanced abilities for granted, so you'll have trouble getting a job. - Operating devices could become difficult to impossible because manual controls will be seen as an unnecessary expense by manufacturers. - You will be socially isolated, because taking part in telepathic communication will be difficult and you plainly can't visit virtual locations. - etc etc. If all that's to much of a hassle to you and you just want to force people to get the implants, you can just hire a "private security contractor" (or build your own army) and force people at gunpoint. If there is no state, who is gonna stop you?

point78 7y ago

So you prefer to go back to kings and emperors? Without the state we will all be slaves to someone.

Kenji 7y ago
Nice strawman. Citation needed.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

xg15 7y ago

And what would make CEOs of private corporations any more likely to deal with this power responsibly? At least government agencies are in theory bound to laws, moral obligations and a democratic process. Meanwhile, private entities don't even have to pretend to work in anyone else's interest than their own. And "you don't have to buy it" is no excuse. If you seriosly want to abolish the state completely, then the same problems that are currently solved by public infrastructure will still exist. You'll be just as unable to opt-out of private roads are you are currently unable to opt-out of public roads. Of course we're actually talking about chips in your brain, not roads. So good luck opting out of that.

etherael 7y ago
> And what would make CEOs of private corporations any more likely to deal with this power responsibly? The same reason none of the previous quotes apply to actors without political power. They do not have the ability to compel people to surrender to unlimited search on penalty of death. This is only reserved and pursued by holders of political authority. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_of_Political_Authority https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Problem_of_Political_Aut... Removing the duty to obey and the right to coerce is the only solution to this problem in the long term. Anything less and they will keep pushing for it loudly and outright doing it as long as they believe they can get away with it. Which, let's be honest in reference to the way rubber stamping of anything that is requested in the name of national security, is basically always, in practice.
- xg15 7y ago
  > They do not have the ability to compel people to surrender to unlimited search on penalty of death. This is only reserved and pursued by holders of political authority. If I run the company that controls peoples' goddamn brain implants, I can conduct unlimited searches or perform arbitrary death sentences at the click of a button.
  - etherael 7y ago
    Not "get them installed". And if the above remains true that's a button they're not going to press, period.
    - xg15 7y ago
      Oh, there are a lot of options to make people install them. The easiest being, make it desirable to have one. If smartphones are any indication, people would either straight-up not know about the issues with control/surveillance or have them as one factor of many to trade-off against. And there are likely lots of benefits that brain implants could offer. If we go full sci-fi, some things they could enable: - Perfect memory (thanks to digital storage, built-in or in the cloud). - A perfect sense of location (thanks to built-in GPS and a direct uplink to a Maps-like service). - Automation of tedious mental tasks (thanks to a bult-in scripting engine). - Perfect control over your emotions. - The ability to record and replay any experience. - Telepathic communication. - Taking part in fully immersive virtual worlds. - Seamless interaction with electronic devices, to a point where they bahave and feel like a literal part of your body. - etc etc. So if you're a rational consumer, your choice is to have all of that and more - or to throw it all away, based on the seemingly remote possibility that the company could monitor or manipulate your thoughts or make you jump out of the nearest window. And the company is giving their strongest pinkie-promise that they would never do such things. Even if you stay strong, if enough people take up the offer, network effects will kick in and make "not installing" an increasingly difficult choice: - Employers will take the enhanced abilities for granted, so you'll have trouble getting a job. - Operating devices could become difficult to impossible because manual controls will be seen as an unnecessary expense by manufacturers. - You will be socially isolated, because taking part in telepathic communication will be difficult and you plainly can't visit virtual locations. - etc etc. If all that's to much of a hassle to you and you just want to force people to get the implants, you can just hire a "private security contractor" (or build your own army) and force people at gunpoint. If there is no state, who is gonna stop you?