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So how does this enable the fraud? Why would this not work with an empty return package? E: I guess this is just one of many possible ways to force a carrier t

So how does this enable the fraud? Why would this not work with an empty return package? E: I guess this is just one of many possible ways to force a carrier to "lose" a parcel, enabling the fraudster to use the same ebay account more times without attracting complaints from sellers.

thinkingemote 7y ago
it does work with an empty package but it just goes to another address. So the seller doesn't get any package. If the seller were to get an empty package they would have some proof to show ebay and so the fraud would be harder to stop.
- gambiting 7y ago
  It still doesn't make any sense. What would be your proof in this case? A picture of an empty box? That's not a proof of anything really, or at least I'd hope it's not - if it is then scummy sellers would always say that you returned an empty package(picture of an empty box included).
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    There's no "postcode loophole", this is just a polished empty return scam. The trick described in the article just improves upon it slightly by making the seller think that royal mail lost the package. There's no dependence on this trick though, the scam works 100% of the time even if the seller receives an empty box.
    - NikkiA 7y ago
      It does change slightly, ebay will consider a 'hey my box was empty' if it's coming from a buyer with a decent feedback. But since the royal mail says 'nope, was delivered' it never leaves the automated system that just assigns guilt to the buyer.
      - ryanlol 7y ago
        It is the seller receiving an empty box, not the buyer. Ebay will always believe a "hey my box was empty", no matter your account history. They'll just ban your account at some point.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  >they would have some proof to show ebay At first glance the empty box seems pretty meaningless, it certainly won't win a dispute for the seller. I guess you're right though, now the seller won't even realize that they're getting scammed and won't report the buyer account to ebay.
  - megaremote 7y ago
    Ok, so if someone tries this scam on you, take a picture of an empty box and then you have won. Right?
    - FDSGSG 7y ago
      No, you always lose if someone tries this scam on you. The only solution would be some kind of an insurance. This is just a cost of doing business. Really sucks for amateur sellers though.
      - icebraining 7y ago
        > The only solution would be some kind of an insurance. If the scammer is in the UK, there's always small claims court. I'm not even from the UK, and I got a scamming seller from there to refund me by just threatening to make a claim.
- megaremote 7y ago
  > If the seller were to get an empty package they would have some proof to show ebay and so the fraud would be harder to stop. What? Think about it for a second, what proof would they have?
  - chaz6 7y ago
    They could have video surveillance of the package from delivery to being opened.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      Why would they bother with the video surveillance? That's not going to help the seller win the dispute.
NikkiA 7y ago
It works because the royal mail system doesn't include the FULL postcode on the tracking information, only the first portion, so for example YO1 which allows the fake recipient to be anywhere in central York. Since it shows as being delivered to 'broadly the right place', ebay refuse to refund, the '£3,000 camera lenses' in the article probably never even existed - the seller will have just sent some random junk that was vaguely the right weight to a co-conspirator in the same town/area.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  Okay, so where does the money come from if the seller and buyer are co-conspirators? Stolen money makes no sense, this kind of trickery would have zero impact on chargebacks.
  - NikkiA 7y ago
    The buyer isn't a co-conspirator, someone in the same area is. The buyer is out the money they paid. But it actually works both ways, this scam has happened on sellers and buyers.
- tachion 7y ago
  The £3148 camera lens existed, it wasn't eBay but Amazon, and there was no fraudulent seller, but fraudulent process around handling misplaced (or stolen) delivery. Read with attention.

thinkingemote 7y ago

it does work with an empty package but it just goes to another address. So the seller doesn't get any package. If the seller were to get an empty package they would have some proof to show ebay and so the fraud would be harder to stop.

gambiting 7y ago
It still doesn't make any sense. What would be your proof in this case? A picture of an empty box? That's not a proof of anything really, or at least I'd hope it's not - if it is then scummy sellers would always say that you returned an empty package(picture of an empty box included).
- ryanlol 7y ago
  There's no "postcode loophole", this is just a polished empty return scam. The trick described in the article just improves upon it slightly by making the seller think that royal mail lost the package. There's no dependence on this trick though, the scam works 100% of the time even if the seller receives an empty box.
  - NikkiA 7y ago
    It does change slightly, ebay will consider a 'hey my box was empty' if it's coming from a buyer with a decent feedback. But since the royal mail says 'nope, was delivered' it never leaves the automated system that just assigns guilt to the buyer.
    - ryanlol 7y ago
      It is the seller receiving an empty box, not the buyer. Ebay will always believe a "hey my box was empty", no matter your account history. They'll just ban your account at some point.
ryanlol 7y ago
>they would have some proof to show ebay At first glance the empty box seems pretty meaningless, it certainly won't win a dispute for the seller. I guess you're right though, now the seller won't even realize that they're getting scammed and won't report the buyer account to ebay.
- megaremote 7y ago
  Ok, so if someone tries this scam on you, take a picture of an empty box and then you have won. Right?
  - FDSGSG 7y ago
    No, you always lose if someone tries this scam on you. The only solution would be some kind of an insurance. This is just a cost of doing business. Really sucks for amateur sellers though.
    - icebraining 7y ago
      > The only solution would be some kind of an insurance. If the scammer is in the UK, there's always small claims court. I'm not even from the UK, and I got a scamming seller from there to refund me by just threatening to make a claim.
megaremote 7y ago
> If the seller were to get an empty package they would have some proof to show ebay and so the fraud would be harder to stop. What? Think about it for a second, what proof would they have?
- chaz6 7y ago
  They could have video surveillance of the package from delivery to being opened.
  - ryanlol 7y ago
    Why would they bother with the video surveillance? That's not going to help the seller win the dispute.

NikkiA 7y ago

It works because the royal mail system doesn't include the FULL postcode on the tracking information, only the first portion, so for example YO1 which allows the fake recipient to be anywhere in central York. Since it shows as being delivered to 'broadly the right place', ebay refuse to refund, the '£3,000 camera lenses' in the article probably never even existed - the seller will have just sent some random junk that was vaguely the right weight to a co-conspirator in the same town/area.

ryanlol 7y ago
Okay, so where does the money come from if the seller and buyer are co-conspirators? Stolen money makes no sense, this kind of trickery would have zero impact on chargebacks.
- NikkiA 7y ago
  The buyer isn't a co-conspirator, someone in the same area is. The buyer is out the money they paid. But it actually works both ways, this scam has happened on sellers and buyers.
tachion 7y ago
The £3148 camera lens existed, it wasn't eBay but Amazon, and there was no fraudulent seller, but fraudulent process around handling misplaced (or stolen) delivery. Read with attention.