9 ms·

I'm a progressive liberal, but I believe this is hogwash. Many countries have a government issued national card for citizens. It's not a huge deal. Activists ha

I'm a progressive liberal, but I believe this is hogwash. Many countries have a government issued national card for citizens. It's not a huge deal. Activists have made it seem like it's a way to suppress voters but I think that's largely BS. We could start a campaign now, or just after the next election in 2020, and get people to sign up for cards by 2028, and enforce that then. We have census every 10 years, it's something the country can easily coordinate.

crooked-v 7y ago
Republicans also conveniently oppose national ID cards and programs to provide hassle-free state IDs.
- niij 7y ago
  > hassle-free state IDs What hassle? Nearly everyone has them already for driving and they're valid for 6+ years. Might take an hour or two of your time every 6 or so years.
  - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
    Or you can just send every eligible voter their voting license when they turn 18 and cut out the middleman.
    - niij 7y ago
      Sounds like a good idea to me, for those without driver's license it'd provide a way to vote without the hassle of getting a non-drivers ID card. Only issues I could think of are: 1. No central registry of addresses, so how would the government know where to send the IDs. 2. Where would the photograph for the ID come from? 3. Possible fraud/abuse from stolen mail
      - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
        Other countries were able to figure it out, so can we. Voting license proponents never seem to want to send eligible voters their free voting licenses, though.
        niij 7y ago
        > Other countries were able to figure it out, so can we I mean the solution to #1 is obvious: forced registration. I think you'll have a hard time getting people on board with passing a law for that. It just seems like an hour at the DMV would solve all 3 problems at once: provide address, current photo, and reduce fraud/abuse. Seems like a good system to me. Can you give me an example of what other country(-ies) system you're thinking about? I'm curious how it's handled elsewhere as well without the need to appear in person to get an ID.
        omnimus 7y ago
        Sorry could you clarify... why would you need Voting Card? I mean normal state ID must be enough no? Like everyone has to have one so they can prove their age and citizenship and where they live no?
        niij 7y ago
        IDs are not mandatory at either the State or Federal level in the USA. The most common type of identification is a State driver's license, but there are also alternative non-driver license ID cards available. None of these IDs are mandatory, but are nearly required to live in modern society (open a bank account, drive a car, vote, etc).
  - TheCoelacanth 7y ago
    Only 62% of 18 year olds have a drivers license[1]. That's not nearly enough to rely on it as a national ID. [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-population-holding-a-drivers-license-by-age-group/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-po...
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Nearly everyone has them already for driving No, not nearly every eligible voters has one, and the distribution is significantly skewed by race and a number of other demographic factors. And more than one of the politicians pushing voter ID has been recorded in what seemed to be politically safe venues pointing to those biases as motivating factors.
- TallGuyShort 7y ago
  Oh right - they're still pretending to not like a strong federal government on some issues.
bananocurrency 7y ago
>I'm a progressive liberal, but I believe this is hogwash. Many countries have a government issued national card for citizens. It's not a huge deal. Activists have made it seem like it's a way to suppress voters but I think that's largely BS. Have you tried educating yourself on the matter? For "some" reason, there are large swaths of land where people have to travel 25+ miles and pay with their already taxed income just for the displeasure of standing in line at the DMV/etc. Tell me how much of a priority this is to someone who might not be able to drive their own car, or take time out of their job for. I don't understand why someone would front their statement with "I'm a progressive liberal" while remaining intentionally obtuse, unless they're arguing in bad faith to begin with.
- zaroth 7y ago
  Your comment could be much better if you could please remove the ad hominem and tone down the snark. Particularly on a political thread.
jonahbenton 7y ago
There is a ton of literature on this. Many elected state and local governments, especially in the South, work actively against the voting interests of large swaths of their populations. Whether through gerrymandering, or processes that improperly remove registrations, or that remove polling places, or that place improper obstacles like fees or clean civic record requirements in the ways of voters, or any of literally hundreds of techniques. Requiring government-issued IDs is just the rhetorical cover for these far more restrictive and extremely pervasive techniques.
- spaginal 7y ago
  The basic argument is that requiring an ID to vote is racially motivated as a tool of suppression and an avenue by which to violate basic civil rights. If this the case, then is requiring a government issued ID to travel, either by auto or air, put in place to prevent minorities from freely traveling around the United States? Are government mandated requirements to produce an ID when purchasing a firearm an effort to prevent black ownership of legal firearms? Once you get beyond the arguments around voting, it wildly begins to fall apart, and either shows a complete lack of logical consistency in standing up for minority rights, or an ulterior motive is at play.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    > Are government mandated requirements to produce an ID when purchasing a firearm an effort to prevent black ownership of legal firearms? The registration/license requirement which was introduced with the gun control act (with NRA backing) was pretty much introduced as a response to Black Panthers publically/legally carrying guns. So, in a way, yes.
patmcc 7y ago
Sure, if you had a free and convenient citizen ID card, requiring ID to vote might be just fine. As it is currently, it's absolutely a way to suppress the vote of low-income (and minority) people. In many areas of many states getting photo ID is non-trivial, especially if you're in a shitty job.
- drivingmenuts 7y ago
  You also have to work out some way of dealing with those who fear The Mark of the Beast.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ping_pong 7y ago
  Hence why I said start the program today, with the same level of canvassing as a census, and then enforce it some time in the future.

crooked-v 7y ago

Republicans also conveniently oppose national ID cards and programs to provide hassle-free state IDs.

niij 7y ago
> hassle-free state IDs What hassle? Nearly everyone has them already for driving and they're valid for 6+ years. Might take an hour or two of your time every 6 or so years.
- fucking_tragedy 7y ago
  Or you can just send every eligible voter their voting license when they turn 18 and cut out the middleman.
  - niij 7y ago
    Sounds like a good idea to me, for those without driver's license it'd provide a way to vote without the hassle of getting a non-drivers ID card. Only issues I could think of are: 1. No central registry of addresses, so how would the government know where to send the IDs. 2. Where would the photograph for the ID come from? 3. Possible fraud/abuse from stolen mail
    - fucking_tragedy 7y ago
      Other countries were able to figure it out, so can we. Voting license proponents never seem to want to send eligible voters their free voting licenses, though.
      - niij 7y ago
        > Other countries were able to figure it out, so can we I mean the solution to #1 is obvious: forced registration. I think you'll have a hard time getting people on board with passing a law for that. It just seems like an hour at the DMV would solve all 3 problems at once: provide address, current photo, and reduce fraud/abuse. Seems like a good system to me. Can you give me an example of what other country(-ies) system you're thinking about? I'm curious how it's handled elsewhere as well without the need to appear in person to get an ID.
        omnimus 7y ago
        Sorry could you clarify... why would you need Voting Card? I mean normal state ID must be enough no? Like everyone has to have one so they can prove their age and citizenship and where they live no?
        niij 7y ago
        IDs are not mandatory at either the State or Federal level in the USA. The most common type of identification is a State driver's license, but there are also alternative non-driver license ID cards available. None of these IDs are mandatory, but are nearly required to live in modern society (open a bank account, drive a car, vote, etc).
- TheCoelacanth 7y ago
  Only 62% of 18 year olds have a drivers license[1]. That's not nearly enough to rely on it as a national ID. [1] https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-population-holding-a-drivers-license-by-age-group/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18682/percentage-of-the-us-po...
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  > Nearly everyone has them already for driving No, not nearly every eligible voters has one, and the distribution is significantly skewed by race and a number of other demographic factors. And more than one of the politicians pushing voter ID has been recorded in what seemed to be politically safe venues pointing to those biases as motivating factors.
TallGuyShort 7y ago
Oh right - they're still pretending to not like a strong federal government on some issues.

bananocurrency 7y ago

>I'm a progressive liberal, but I believe this is hogwash. Many countries have a government issued national card for citizens. It's not a huge deal. Activists have made it seem like it's a way to suppress voters but I think that's largely BS. Have you tried educating yourself on the matter? For "some" reason, there are large swaths of land where people have to travel 25+ miles and pay with their already taxed income just for the displeasure of standing in line at the DMV/etc. Tell me how much of a priority this is to someone who might not be able to drive their own car, or take time out of their job for. I don't understand why someone would front their statement with "I'm a progressive liberal" while remaining intentionally obtuse, unless they're arguing in bad faith to begin with.

zaroth 7y ago
Your comment could be much better if you could please remove the ad hominem and tone down the snark. Particularly on a political thread.

jonahbenton 7y ago

There is a ton of literature on this. Many elected state and local governments, especially in the South, work actively against the voting interests of large swaths of their populations. Whether through gerrymandering, or processes that improperly remove registrations, or that remove polling places, or that place improper obstacles like fees or clean civic record requirements in the ways of voters, or any of literally hundreds of techniques. Requiring government-issued IDs is just the rhetorical cover for these far more restrictive and extremely pervasive techniques.

spaginal 7y ago
The basic argument is that requiring an ID to vote is racially motivated as a tool of suppression and an avenue by which to violate basic civil rights. If this the case, then is requiring a government issued ID to travel, either by auto or air, put in place to prevent minorities from freely traveling around the United States? Are government mandated requirements to produce an ID when purchasing a firearm an effort to prevent black ownership of legal firearms? Once you get beyond the arguments around voting, it wildly begins to fall apart, and either shows a complete lack of logical consistency in standing up for minority rights, or an ulterior motive is at play.
- viraptor 7y ago
  > Are government mandated requirements to produce an ID when purchasing a firearm an effort to prevent black ownership of legal firearms? The registration/license requirement which was introduced with the gun control act (with NRA backing) was pretty much introduced as a response to Black Panthers publically/legally carrying guns. So, in a way, yes.

patmcc 7y ago

Sure, if you had a free and convenient citizen ID card, requiring ID to vote might be just fine. As it is currently, it's absolutely a way to suppress the vote of low-income (and minority) people. In many areas of many states getting photo ID is non-trivial, especially if you're in a shitty job.

drivingmenuts 7y ago
You also have to work out some way of dealing with those who fear The Mark of the Beast.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ping_pong 7y ago
Hence why I said start the program today, with the same level of canvassing as a census, and then enforce it some time in the future.